Being Jewish with Jonah Platt

Jonah interview
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Yonit Levi: [00:00:00] Jonah Platt is the host of the podcast being Jewish with Jonah Platt, which deals with Jewish identity. He's an actor, producer, and advocate. He comes from entertainment. His voice has become increasingly influential around issues of Jewish identity and antisemitism in the us. Jonah, thank you so much for coming on unholy.

Jonah Platt: Thank you both for having me. Pleasure to be here all around the world.

Yonit Levi: Yeah. And it really is right between LA and London and Tel Aviv. We really are, we managed to somehow, uh, synchronize our time zones. Um, you know, we're, we're speaking here in the, in the shadow of what happened in dc. It's about 12 hours after.

As we sit here, could you share with us just your initial sort of thoughts, feelings after this happened?

Jonah Platt: Yeah, of course. I mean, uh, the initial thought is. Sadness and, and just taking in the tragedy of two young, engaged people standing outside of a building and getting killed for it. Uh, it's just [00:01:00] devastating.

And, you know, I, I, the next thing is, is, you know, relief that everybody inside that building was all right. I mean, the fact that the shooter. Walked into the building afterwards and for whatever reason, didn't try anything in there. Uh, is is a, is a blessing. I mean, you, that's like bench and go mail worthy.

Um, so I definitely thought about that. Um, you know, this is, you know, it's funny, I, I posted yesterday about blood libel. Uh, on, on Instagram. I made an infographic about how the sort of. Hamas communications cycle works of the fabricating data. The un parroting it, the media hurrying to pick it up, the anti-Israel crowd, throwing it all over social media and Hamas saying, okay, this works.

I'm gonna keep doing it. And then, you know, not eight hours later, somebody [00:02:00] shouting Free, free Palestine. Shot up two Jews in front of a Jewish museum in the capitol of this country. Uh, it's hard not to think of there being a, a level of causality there, um, that when, you know, you essentially advocate for violence against Jews.

We, we can't be surprised when somebody takes that to heart and commits violence against Jews. And I know what the reaction's gonna be from a lot of that crowd, which is, that's not me. That's not my advocacy. That's not how I feel about Palestine. When I say free Palestine, I'm, I'm certainly not advocating for violence.

And of course that's fair and true, but the fact remains that there is a dark, violent element. Of this movement and, and when you shout free Palestine as a, as a justific justification for violence, that's, that's not protests anymore. That's persecution [00:03:00] and that's what we're seeing. And I, I really hope that I.

Everybody who needs to take this seriously, that is law enforcement and government really do take this extremely seriously to ensure that there's not a, you know, a, a, a cluster effect here or, or, or contagion effect, and that this is a one and done for our community. How much were you surprised by it when you heard about it?

I mean. Is anybody surprised anymore at anything? You know, I, I wouldn't say that I'm that surprised. Um, I guess if anything, I would be surprised at the laxity of the security protocols at that building. Um, it seemed like, uh, and from what I understood, and I spoke to some people who were inside the event that as the, this was towards the end of the event, so like that's when it.

People tend to relax a little bit and where the, the, you know, the in and out of that building. [00:04:00] Was a little too casual. Uh, maybe you let your guard down a little bit 'cause you've reached the end of the night. Um, but, you know, hopefully this is a good wake up call for all Jewish institutions everywhere at every level to really tighten the screws if they haven't already on security protocols.

Because look, we, we know we need them. This, this, this part isn't new, we. All our synagogues have armed guards and bulletproof glass and concrete barriers and all those things. And if they don't have them, they should have them. And I don't say that to fear monger or to panic or to blow this out of proportion, but we know this kind of thing has happened before famously, um, in, in the.

Past, it's generally been hatred from the right who have been perpetuating this violence. Now it's coming from the left, uh, it's coming from, you know, socialists, uh, and, and the free Palestine crowd. And so we just need to continue to invest in community security and, and [00:05:00] tighten those screws. And I, I don't think anybody should be surprised that this happened.

And I don't want anybody to be caught by surprise again in the future.

Yonit Levi: You know, obviously there's the, uh, connection to October 7th and the anti-Israel crowd, which is galvanized and in some cases radicalized. But it's just, it does feel like beyond that, and particularly, you know, after October 7th that Jew hatred is.

Is tolerated, you know, I don't wanna say open season on the Jews, but it does kind of feel like that. There's a, a famous artist singing he Hitler. Um, there's, you know, a million examples Tucker Carlson saying that Jews killed Kennedy. It is coming from the left, it's coming from the right, it's coming from entertainment.

It's coming from politics. You know, what should, what can be done?

Jonah Platt: Well, when you put it like that, it's uh, it's pretty dark, uh, situation. But look, there's, there's always words a great, convince me that

Yonit Levi: I'm wrong.

Jonah Platt: You know, there, there's always work to be done and mm-hmm. Um, I, I think the, the, [00:06:00] the best sort of antidote to what we're seeing is not like, let's fight.

And combat anti Jew bigotry, we obviously have to be calling those things out and taking them seriously, and, and that's, that's a piece of the puzzle. But to me, the best antidote is creating a loud and proud. Jewish community and allies that are really taking up space in, in public in a way that we have not in this country before, where we've always sort of apologized for being here or kept our heads down.

And as, as much as the hatred of Jews as being normalized, we need to normalize Jews being part of this country and, and part of the west in an open public. Uh, respected, dignified way and not in a self-deprecating deferential. Is it all right with you kind of way? Uh, to, to, to me that's the, the most [00:07:00] important thing.

That, and, and what comes with that, but is also sort of its own thing, is education. Uh, so much of the ability to hate on Jews comes from. Lies and misunderstandings. And once somebody has been incepted by these lies and misunderstandings, it's, it's really hard to undo. So it it, if we can pour our energy into focusing on getting to people's brains before the propaganda does.

I think that will go a really long way. And, and some of those key misunderstandings are, for example, like what a Jew is. Uh, most people on planet Earth have no idea what a Jew is. They think a Jew is whatever they see on the news, which is people who blow up babies and they think a Jew is whatever they see in movies on tv, which is like ultra Orthodox diamond dealers and rich white people in Beverly Hills, like those are Jews.

They don't know that Jews are a people. That a tribe [00:08:00] stretching back to thousands of years for which religion is but one shared facet of this. People, they don't know that Jews come in all colors and from all over the world, but are all still that same tribe and that in fact the majority of the world's Jews are not even white presenting.

They don't know that Jews, there are as many poor Jews as rich Jews in America. Just understanding those points, uh, I think would go a long way towards mitigating a lot of this hatred because it's a lot, it's much harder to call somebody a rich white European colonizer when you know that they are, you know, a poor brown Iraqi refugee.

Um, or, or whatnot. You know, there, there's just so much more to us than that very overly simplistic binary that, uh, is purposefully being pushed forth to, you know, kind of whitewash us and make us hateable.

Jonathan Freedland: Very interesting what you are saying, and I think we, you know, we, we wrestle with a lot of this.

Stuff. Here's something I myself don't know the answer to, so [00:09:00] this is why I would really like to hear your view of it. Sure. We all agree that somebody who's opening fire on a Jewish museum is an antisemite, right? Right. It doesn't matter what they, what slogan they chant. If you are firing on a synagogue or a, or a Jewish museum, you are a Jew hat.

You're an antisemite. Okay. Right.

Jonah Platt: Period.

Jonathan Freedland: What does it period exactly, what does it do though to how Jews are seen outside the realm of those, those extremes and those kind of, uh, unconscionable acts to just how Jews are seen when the most visible Jewish society in the world, which is Israel, behaves in ways which liberal people who are not haters.

But just decent liberal people who don't, like, for example, this will, you know, groan because I bang on about this all the time, but you know, they don't like famines when they're in Africa. They don't love seeing people being hungry in Gaza. Right? Yep. And they see a Jewish government doing that. What does it do to people's views of Jews in America when that's happening?

If [00:10:00] anything? Or it is it just totally separate and one doesn't have any bearing on the other.

Jonah Platt: Well, it shouldn't have any bearing on the other, but I think we all know that it does. Um, I think there's this, you know, unfair, what I would call bigoted assumption, that because you're a Jew. And because you thusly may support, you know, the existence of the Jewish homeland and the people in that homeland, that means you automatically agree with everything the government is doing, which is an insane double standard that no.

One else on Earth has to deal with at either level. Nobody in their own country has to deal with that. That because you're a citizen of that country, you must agree with absolutely everything that country does at all times. And certainly nobody holds to that standard, people who don't even live in that country.

Um, so it, it's, it's extremely unfair. But it [00:11:00] sort of is the situation where we're at, where there's a little bit of, um, and I, and I sort of get where it comes from, right? Because I am a Jew, I do support Israel. So if you don't know about Jews, you don't understand the connection to Israel. And for you, this Israel thing is, you know, I.

Political dinner table conversation that you can pick up and put down. There's this assumption that that's sort of the what it is for me. And I could just choose to say, I, I can't stand with this country, but you know, we're family and you, you don't go against the family in, in a meaningful way. You call out your family, you criticize your family, you fight with your family.

You, you, you urge them and push them and hold them accountable, but, but you don't. Turn on them. You, you work with it, you gotta figure it out. You only get one family. And, um, that's certainly how I feel about Israel. And that's why it's tricky. And I, you know, I, I, I, I always am urging people to not paint the anti-Israel crowd all with the same brush, very much Jonathan, for how you just painted them.

There are plenty of [00:12:00] people who, they don't know the whole situation. They don't know the context. They don't know the nuance. All they know is they're seeing, you know. Completely starving children on their Instagram feed. And from their point of view and from what they're being shown, it's completely Israel's fault.

And they want it to go away and they want it to stop, and they want the pers the, the entity that they feel is responsible to be held accountable. And if you're supporting that entity, that's some to them, some level of complicity. In that, um, which is complicated and unfair, and one of those things that unless we talk about it and talk about it together, um, we're just gonna keep missing each other and it's just gonna create this, this deep misunderstanding and discord.

I

Yonit Levi: wonder about, you know, the sort of generational difference. Um, and you know what? Let's, let's talk about that a little bit, but then I'm also interested in your family and, and I assume that there are some disagreements within that family. Uh, if there's something called a Royal [00:13:00] Jewish family in America, that's probably the family you come from, but, but we'll get to that.

Oh my gosh. I'm wondering, is it possible to say there's a Royal Jewish family?

Jonah Platt: Oh, I don't know about that.

Yonit Levi: But we should say your, your father is Mark Platt. He's a big time Hollywood producer. Your mother is Julie Platt of the Jewish Federations, and everyone there knows her. And your brother is famous actor Ben Platt.

Uh, I would assume that your views on Israel are a little different, uh, from his, it's, it's pretty much, you know, what we call in Israel made DGA Lui. This is all out in the open. I wonder what your Shabbat dinners then look like.

Jonah Platt: Well, you know, I, without going too much into the personal and relationship stuff mm-hmm.

Which I don't love to do. Um, I, I will say it's very much what I just said in that we, we have to just talk to each other and also, you don't go against the family, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, family is family and that comes first and whatever else there is. If, if the most important thing to you is the relationship and.

Certainly it is for me. You find a way [00:14:00] to talk about it and come and understand each other. Uh, nothing gets solved by shutting down and not communicating. Certainly that doesn't make anything better and that doesn't help anybody. And as long as there's a, a, a mutual love and respect and, and the relationship comes first, I think anybody can get through any disagreement.

And, you know, my ethos both on my show and in real life is I, I'm not. Setting out every day to change people's minds. I think that's sort of a, a losing exercise and I, it's not something I've personally had a lot of success with or seen other people have a lot of success with. To me, the best thing you can hope for is open dialogue and, and an intimate, well-functioning relationship that leaves space for conversation and ideas being shared.

And that's sort of the best you can do. And then it's sort of up to the person in their own brain to take what's being [00:15:00] put out and do with it what they will. But we don't have the power to stick our hands into somebody's brain and move things around. Um, and when we try to do that, we risk jeopardizing the.

Relationship. Uh, because no, nobody likes to sort of be told You're wrong. I'm right. Here's why. It's just, that's it. That's not a, a, a gateway to productivity.

Jonathan Freedland: I was just thinking there, and yet there are, and we hear about them all the time and I'm sure you do. So many families in America, certainly, but also outside where they're just not managing to do this.

I mean, that they would be really. Envious of your family, which means managing to contain the arguments and instead people, we, we hear about them, you know, where kids are not speaking to their parents, parents are not having, you know, Seder with their own since October 7th particularly, that this is really tearing people apart.

What, what, what do you think explains that? Why are some families not able to do it? Some people not able to do what, what I [00:16:00] think you very eloquently have described as being the goal. Why are people not able to get there?

Jonah Platt: Because emotions are a powerful thing. And when we lead with emotion, which is for many, if not most people, our instinct, it's really hard to have these kind of conversations, these difficult conversations that are, are scary for a lot of people to even approach.

Um, I totally get that. That's very natural. But one of the key. Things to having one of these kinds of difficult conversations. I actually have a thing I call the four C's of having difficult conversations and, and one of them is, is calm. You, you have to come into it dispassionately. If you come in out of fear or anger or shame or trying to change your mind or any of that stuff, it's just gonna be too fraught and too heated to to work.

You have to find a way. For me what [00:17:00] works is like, I like doing these kinds of conversations later at night when it's like quiet and calm. I like doing them over a bottle of wine where we're chilling, where there's one of the other seasons comradery, right? Like it has to feel like we are engaging as, as, as people who have a relationship and not as debaters on opposite sides of some academic argument.

Um. I I'll, since we're on the subject, I'll say the other Cs, one of them is curiosity. You, you have to actually wanna understand what the other person is thinking and feeling. That is, that is the key. And, and, and it, it's understanding that leads to good feelings at the very least. And like open pathways, you might not agree, but if at least you can understand where someone is coming from.

It does a lot to mitigate the bad feelings and the tension and the rest you can work on. Um, and then the fourth C is compassion. Not just, you know, [00:18:00] being curious about what they're doing, but really taking it in and going, okay, I I get that. Yeah. It's not what my lived experience has taken me, it's not what I would be doing.

And I still think you're missing something here. But I get how for you in your world, in your lived experience, I, I can see the path that brought you here and I understand your challenges and priorities that are different than mine. And, and having that level of understanding in this way is the only way I, that I have found at least to, to be productive and to maintain.

Healthy relationships when there are very difficult fraught tensions like this.

Yonit Levi: Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting what you're saying 'cause obviously our conversation, Jonathan and mine conversation, my conversation since October 7th has been occasionally fraught with some disagreements more than before October 7th.

And I think I, I would, I don't wanna ruin the seas because I like them a lot, but I would say. In, in our [00:19:00] regard, it would be probably trust and respect and, and the fact that you really trust the person you're talking to and you respect them. And you can, and I really, you know, I can tap into what you're saying about compassion, trying to understand where the other side is coming from and, and what they're seeing a little bit like in a good novel where you can put yourself in the shoes of, of another, um, character.

I do wonder though. Um, when you, you know, about this podcast about being Jewish and the conversations which are really interesting, but are you concerned that this also could be assertive circle because people who come to the podcast would probably not be anti-Israel? That's my guess. Um, so how do you feel that you can reach over, uh, that divide, um, in, in the conversations that you do?

Jonah Platt: Yeah, it's tricky. I, I would say that that's not my number one goal is mm-hmm. Is reaching people who are anti-Israel or anti-Jewish. Mm-hmm. My main audience and my goal are, is [00:20:00] everybody else, um, people who are either already pro-Israel or proje, or at the very least, are not anti and wanna learn more.

That's, that's my audience. So I know I have like, I have a lot of non-Jewish people in my audience who, who come to the show for education and for sort of. A lighter feeling around this space than some of the doom and gloom stuff. And, and are also interested to hear these conversations with notable people and see what they're all going through.

And that's, that's sort of my one, my one baseline when people ask like, how do you decide your guests, the, the only baseline I've had up until this point that, that unites everybody is they all like Jews. You have to like Jews to, to, to come on the show. Um, that's the only thing. You can have different opinions on everything else, but that one, I'm not, I'm not trying to bring somebody on to argue about our existence.

That's not my program. Other people can do that, but that's not what this is for. Um, and so my hope is that, you know, when I do try to speak [00:21:00] to those people who may need to hear a particular message about being anti-Israel or whatnot, my hope is that my audience will be sharing it. With the people in their lives or, uh, you know, absorbing it and then going out and trying to have these conversations on their own with the people in their lives.

Uh, I'm about to release on Tuesday, my next episode, my, my opening monologue. I open every episode with, you know, a five to 10 minute just talking, me talking to camera about something. And it is very, it's actually about this exact subject. It's about a certain kind of anti-Israel Jew. Which has been very fascinating to me, just sort of from a academic standpoint of, you know, who are these people, where are they coming from, how did they get there?

How do we deal with them? Uh, and so I, I sort of go into a quite a long, um, observation about a certain class of anti-Israel Jew, and I'm, I'm hopeful that the people in these people's lives will share this with them and, and share. [00:22:00] The, uh, you know, compassionate point of view that I have and understanding and see that I'm, I'm advocating for them not to be lumped in with, you know, Kafi wearing Hamas, flag bearing anti-Western.

You know, anarchists, because that's not everybody,

Yonit Levi: you know. I, I think the Israeli part of our audience will probably be interested in the, uh, fact that you, you know, you went viral recently, your comments against, uh, Rachel Ziegler who played Snow White, uh, and promoted the movie with the words, uh, free Palestine.

Uh, and you, you know, you wrote among other things that free speech doesn't mean you're allowed to. Say whatever you want. Um, tens of thousands of people worked on that film. She hijacked the conversation for her own immature desires. So I guess what I'm asking, you know, to go beyond the, the film and, and, and the effects of this, but how worried are you about sort of antisemitism in Hollywood as, as a, as a problem is, does that concern you more than, for example, what you saw on campuses?

Jonah Platt: I would say they're, they're different. [00:23:00] Um, what we see on campuses is, is worrisome because it is. Physical. I mean, it is in your day-to-day life, in your face, people are being. Harassed physically and spat on and prevented from going into buildings and being ostracized. And, uh, so I mean, even as I hear myself saying it, yeah, it's definitely worse for those college kids.

Um, but the impact of what Hollywood can do is, is obviously of a much greater scale. Uh, and so it's important to, to deal with what's there. There is obviously some. Issues with the way Jews are treated and thought of within Hollywood. But there's also really strong proje forces in Hollywood who very much so have woken up since October 7th.

I've been very encouraged by what I've seen in a lot of ways, uh, a, a Jewish [00:24:00] renaissance, if you will, of people. Really focusing on wanting to tell Jewish stories and hire Jewish representation for Jewish stories and, and a real acknowledgement by people behind the scenes like managers and executives and studios, all of that stuff, that there's an issue and that we can't just sort of coast quietly like we had been.

There needs to be intention and activity and engagement on this stuff, and we're definitely seeing a lot more of that. Um, and when it comes to. Uh, you know, again, a lot of it, it's like. Entertainers, their job is not to be well-versed in complex geopolitical situations. It's only because it's the thing du jour.

Mm-hmm. And they all have these platforms that they're having to open their mouths about it. And in the worlds that they're in these progressive, far to the left circles, they're in the majority. I mean, this is the, the pervading. Thought, uh, and, and [00:25:00] way of, of seeing the world in their groups. So when they speak out about this stuff, it's very comfortable in a way to do so.

And, and they get a lot of pats on the back for it. Mm-hmm. And I think we're, we're quick to be like, oh, it's, it's an echo chamber, and they're just in it for the likes and the clicks. But another way, honestly, to say echo chamber is. Your community or your friend group. I mean, that's who's in the echo chamber with you.

And when all your friends or your community think and feel a certain way, you're not necessarily a sheep for also thinking and feeling that way. That's sort of what communities get built around are people who are like you and think like you and, and like the same things as you. So I, I think it's tough, um, but I do think a lot of it is not.

Nefarious in that way. I think a so much of it just comes from total misunderstanding and miseducation and definitely a little bit of, you know, that that sort of white guilt ap at least coming from some [00:26:00] of the Jews within Hollywood who feel like, you know, they need to. They need to align with the quote unquote oppressed, uh, in, in a way that is somewhat performative and does speak to something deeper inside them that they, that they're not aware of perhaps.

But I don't think a lot of it comes from we hate the Jews. Like the Jews are running things, blah, blah, blah, that stuff. I don't see a ton of that

Jonathan Freedland: kind of vibe. Mm-hmm. At that point you make about sort of the echo chamber and people being surrounded by, and their friends and their social circle. Of course that will be true of the pro-Israel conversation as well, where people are absolutely mutually reinforcing and, and, uh, uh, uh, and, uh, doubling down on what people think.

I, I'm just, this may be related actually, and is the extent to which this has affected you. You, you know, you are an actor and I wondered, as soon as I saw your podcast, I thought, well, I wonder what that's gonna do for his career. Like being an action in Hollywood who presents a podcast called Being Jewish.

[00:27:00] Helps, hurts, has no effect. What, what do you think, what's your sense of whether people think, Hmm, maybe a bit too Jewish, let's go for someone else?

Jonah Platt: Yeah, I, it, it's a complicated question for me to answer personally because I have made this world so much more my focus, at least at the moment. Then acting, so there's a little bit of a chicken and an egg.

Like if it was affecting me, I don't know that I would necessarily feel it because I'm focused on this work right now anyway. Um. But I, I haven't felt it, to be honest. Like, I don't know if there's some conversation in some room happening that I'm unaware of, but it's not like, you know, my auditions went away or I've had anybody say anything to me specifically.

If anything, what it's done is, you know, connected me with more people and brought more Jews within the industry into contact with me who are saying, you know, I appreciate what you're doing and you know, want to be. In conversation and relationship with me in [00:28:00] solidarity and are sort of grateful that I'm an outspoken person in this space.

Um, so I think if anything, it's, it's a net positive. Um, and, and I do think, look, even if it wasn't, it's just too important to really worry about, um, this is, this is the time to use whatever platform we have to do what we gotta do. Uh, whether it's. You know, helps the bottom line or not. And I will say to a, to a person, everybody on my podcast who I've asked this to has said that even when one door has maybe closed, like 10 more have opened because of this.

Mm-hmm. People just sort of waiting to go, oh, you're one of. You're one of us. You're one of the people out there. I can't wait to support you and help you and do work on this thing with you. And I've seen all kinds of new partnerships and discoveries as a result. So I, I think that's one of the big fears I know people have of like, stepping into the spotlight in this way or certainly from the outside looking in.

And I would say that for the most part it's, [00:29:00] it's unfounded. And even when it does take place, the, the pros far outweigh the cons.

Yonit Levi: So finally, I feel like I was, the voice of doom and gloom in this conversation. Could have something to do with being awakened, you know, woken up by a houtt missile at 3:00 AM So give us something.

Convince us that, uh, there's some, you know, good, good things about this around some, some, yeah, give us some optimism.

Jonah Platt: Sure. Um, I'll, I'll give you some optimism in, in two ways. One is that, as I've sort of touched on a little bit in, in this talk, there has been a Jewish renaissance and an engagement that we haven't seen.

In a really long time, uh, in a beautiful way, and I think that it's, it's already paying dividends. I know it can feel hard to see 'cause there's so much else going on, but it's happening already that people are, are creating new initiatives and making new inroads and creating more. Dignity and and pride in being Jewish, and that's only [00:30:00] gonna continue to grow.

I'm really encouraged by what I'm seeing from the younger generation, from leaders on college campuses who are absolutely amazing and are not just leading. Uh, students and are not just gonna be leaders for the future, but are real leaders in this space right now and are really understanding this at a, at a ground level and have, have developed like a real level of expertise around Jewish advocacy and, and education and anti ju bigotry and are, are really give me a lot of hope.

And then the last thing that I'll say that we always tend to forget because, you know, it's two sides of the same coin, Jews are. One of, if not the most persecuted people in history, but we're also the most resilient people in history. We are the ones who have survived all this persecution. We always do, no matter how horrible it is, we've been through way worse than what we're going through right now.

We made it through that. We're absolutely gonna make it through this, and as long as we continue to learn from our past, [00:31:00] which Jews for the most part are pretty good at doing of all people, we do look back on our history and, and try to take lessons from it as long as we continue to do that and continue to innovate and stick together.

I know we're gonna get just fine

Jonathan Freedland: in a way that you've answered What, um, is, is a question that I know that we both, uh, sort of grapple with a lot, which is how to talk about all this stuff going on and yet still, you know, make an entertaining experience for people listening. You know, you don't want them jumping off a building.

And so you've, um, in a way I think you've answered that just with those thoughts about resilience and about the future. We are very grateful to you, um, for coming on on. Holy, thank you Jonah Platt.

Jonah Platt: Thank you so much for having me. Pleasure to be with you both.