Being Jewish with Jonah Platt

[00:00:00] Jonah Platt: A quick note. Today's monologue was recorded a few days before the horrific pogrom that took place in Amsterdam on November 7th, where Jews were beaten, humiliated, made to show their passports to prove their identities, in a coordinated attack only two days before the anniversary of Kristallnacht. Only this time, there's a difference.

[00:00:22] Jonah Platt: We have Israel. What difference can you make this time around? There's a speech I've been thinking about a lot over the past year, some key lines of which I will quote for you now. It would not have been possible for us to take power or to use it in the ways we have. Without social media. We live in the age of the masses.

[00:00:42] Jonah Platt: The masses rightly demand that they participate in the great events of the day. Social media is the most influential and important intermediary between a movement and the nation. Between the idea and the reality. Okay, full disclosure, that's not the exact [00:01:00] quote. I took the liberty of inserting the words social media in place of the original word radio.

[00:01:06] Jonah Platt: But the meanings are identical. Even 91 years after this was originally delivered on August 18th, 1933 at the 10th International Radio Exhibition in Berlin. The author of these words is none other than Joseph Goebbels, the infamous architect of the Nazi propaganda machine, who paved the path for Jewish genocide straight through the minds of the everyday masses.

[00:01:28] Jonah Platt: His speech was entitled, Radio as the Eighth Great Power, a riff on Napoleon's assertion of press as the seventh great power behind the six great nations of his day. Bonus points if you can name all six without Google, we'll put them in the show notes. Taking up this mantle, it would surely be appropriate to anoint social media as today's next great power.

[00:01:48] Jonah Platt: And one can imagine a Sinwar or Nasrallah saying that without social media, it would not have been possible for us to take power or to use it in the ways we have. The unending [00:02:00] tsunami of anti Israel, anti Jew propaganda and vitriol online can feel absolutely overwhelming. As my recent guest Van Jones put it, it's like we left an undefended basket open and Hamas, Iran, Russia, China, They're just draining threes and running up the scoreboard while we try to figure out what game we're even playing.

[00:02:20] Jonah Platt: Our enemies excel at this brand of subversive social disruption, measurably influencing American minds, turning us against our values and each other to their benefit. And despite knowing this manipulation is happening, I'm talking hard evidence of expensive and elaborate campaigns to poison our society, we keep losing the forest for the trees.

[00:02:42] Jonah Platt: I mean, TikTok is literally owned and run by China, an authoritarian surveillance state, and we know this, and still millions of Americans seem to have a recurring case of temporary forgettiness and continue to absorb the algorithm uncritically. At face [00:03:00] value, it's clear we have to do something. Over the past year, I've been in contact with dozens of different Jewish organizations and initiatives, all trying to throw spaghetti at the wall of this social media problem to see what sticks.

[00:03:13] Jonah Platt: We need bot farms, we need influencers, we need celebrities, we need commercials. But when you're losing 8 gajillion to zero, the strategy of, okay, let's start copying what they're doing as fast as we can, is doesn't exactly scream coup de grace, as Napoleon himself might say. We need a different approach, a comprehensive tactic that goes beyond just messaging, if we want to undo the brainwashing that has already been so effectively done.

[00:03:39] Jonah Platt: To figure out this future, let us look to the past. When we learn about the terrifying experience of the days under Hitler and the Third Reich, we can't help but wonder, what would I have done? Would I have spoken out, joined the resistance, seen the writing on the wall? Would I be the neighbor hiding Jews in my attic or turning them in for [00:04:00] reward?

[00:04:01] Jonah Platt: Would I have fled, or fought, or prayed and waited? In my experience, we always overestimate ourselves in regards to this question. We like to believe we would have been one of the righteous ones or the brave ones. But if every man and woman had been righteous and brave in 1933, there would have been no Holocaust.

[00:04:19] Jonah Platt: So, we know that's not the case. And while we will never be able to answer the question of what we might have done then, we can answer it now, in 2024, in the historical moment of our lifetimes in which we find ourselves today. Remember, the beginning of a disaster is never the beginning of the story. The Hitler Youth The slow Nazi indoctrination of an entire generation began in 1922, 16 years before even Kristallnacht.

[00:04:48] Jonah Platt: What if every Jew and ally had spoken up then? Could they have changed the outcome? Which leads me to this, dear listeners, a call to action. Jews may stink at messaging and [00:05:00] optics, but boy, are we good at making shit happen in the real world. I mean the average person has no idea that Jews are responsible for their Waze app or favorite Christmas song or for winning an inordinate amount of Nobel prizes That hasn't stopped us from winning them, you know When it comes to the social media battle for moral clarity, no amount of memes or reels or infographics alone is going to change our fate.

[00:05:23] Jonah Platt: And yet we all know how easy it is to get lost in the vortex, the mind numbing rabbit holes, the endless doom scrolling. And so I want to gift you a little nugget. A simple yet profound maxim to set your watch by from this moment forward. It's one I heard from Rabbi Susan Goldberg, leader of Nefesh, a spiritual outreach community based on L.

[00:05:44] Jonah Platt: A. 's east side. She said, For every minute you spend scrolling, Spend a minute doing. I wrote it down immediately. So straightforward, and yet potentially so impactful. And importantly, so [00:06:00] achievable. Doing can mean so many things. Start a Jewish club at your school. Host a group watch of the Nova documentary, We Will Dance Again.

[00:06:10] Jonah Platt: Bring dreidels and gelt into your workplace for Hanukkah. Call a city council member to combat a BDS proposal. Check in on a Jewish friend, buy Israeli products, throw a fundraiser, attend a fundraiser, on and on and on. Don't let the scope of the work required or your current bandwidth for doing it stand in your way.

[00:06:28] Jonah Platt: You don't need to run a non profit or quit your job or start a podcast to make a difference. Just do something. It all makes a difference. We are where we are today because of acquiescence and inaction. But when we normalize standing up and taking space for ourselves, Guess what happens? It becomes normal.

[00:06:52] Jonah Platt: And if Jews owning our awesomeness ever becomes normal, it's gonna be a whole lot harder to push us around. So, [00:07:00] what would you have done during Goebbels time? Well, when you're done scrolling, see what you decide to do today, and you'll have your answer. This is the ninth episode of Being Jewish, with me, Jonah Platt.

[00:07:43] Jonah Platt: New York City, center of the universe. Home to world famous pizzas, deli, dim sum, all kinds of yummy foods we crave. And my guest today knows a thing or two about yummy food. She's a prolific writer, culinary expert, and a fixture on television's most [00:08:00] popular food show of the 21st century. She's also a mother, a Canadian, a bringer of briskets, and a noted pickle enthusiast.

[00:08:08] Jonah Platt: To know her is to love her. Please welcome Gail Simmons.

[00:08:11] Gail Simmons: One of the best intros ever, I think. Yes! That was really, really nice.

[00:08:14] Jonah Platt: Thank you. Yeah, you know. We try to shine. Oh,

[00:08:17] Gail Simmons: I'm happy to be here. Thank you.

[00:08:18] Jonah Platt: Um, Gail and I just had lunch, which is like, you know, playing pickup basketball with Steph Curry, whose nickname by the way, is Chef Curry.

[00:08:25] Jonah Platt: So that was on purpose.

[00:08:26] Gail Simmons: There you go. Yes, I know it.

[00:08:27] Jonah Platt: What's the difference between a chef and a cook, would you say? And which one are you?

[00:08:31] Gail Simmons: I'm a cook. Uh, sometimes I call myself a professional cook. A

[00:08:35] Jonah Platt: pro cook.

[00:08:36] Gail Simmons: I'm not a chef. To me, the word chef, I'm a little, I'm literal about this. I'm just going to take it seriously.

[00:08:42] Gail Simmons: It was my training. It was the way I was kind of raised in the industry. The word chef is the French word for boss. So when I use the word chef, I mean it. About someone who runs a kitchen who is the boss of a kitchen. I am the chef in my household

[00:08:58] Jonah Platt: Yeah,

[00:08:58] Gail Simmons: but I do not profess [00:09:00] to be a professional chef

[00:09:01] Jonah Platt: So if I made the assumption that your first most formative memories of being jewish were based on food Would I be correct

[00:09:09] Gail Simmons: fair?

[00:09:10] Jonah Platt: Okay,

[00:09:10] Gail Simmons: absolutely.

[00:09:11] Jonah Platt: What are some of those early keystone memories around jewish food in your house?

[00:09:15] Gail Simmons: There's a lot, you know, my um my jewish background is ashkenazi my Family, I was born and raised in Toronto. My mother's parents were from Russia and Poland. They moved to Canada, you know, via the St. Lawrence River, which is sort of the Ellis Island of Canada, um, between the first and second world wars as so many, Ashkenazi Jews did.

[00:09:40] Gail Simmons: Is that when there was a

[00:09:40] Jonah Platt: big influx into Canada specifically? Yes. Absolutely. And

[00:09:43] Gail Simmons: specifically into Montreal. My grandmother was an amazing cook. And my mother in turn was an extraordinary cook. And actually made her living at it for a long time as well. So, my first Jewish food memories are brisket.

[00:09:59] Gail Simmons: Chicken [00:10:00] soup borscht

[00:10:00] Jonah Platt: A

[00:10:02] Gail Simmons: lot of beet borscht that my mother my grandmother made. Um Kreplach and cabbage rolls, you know, my grandmother was russian. So there was definitely All of that stuff in my household Um, my father My father's side was not known for their culinary prowess. I should say um, but My father was a pickle maker.

[00:10:24] Gail Simmons: By trade? Or just by hobby? How cool would that have been? By hobby. He was a chemical engineer.

[00:10:30] Jonah Platt: And he was not a

[00:10:31] Gail Simmons: cook. Well, there's science to it, right? Um, fermentation. My father was not a cook. He smartly acquiesced to my mother. She was the boss in the kitchen. She was the chef. But my father did food projects.

[00:10:49] Gail Simmons: So he made wine.

[00:10:51] Jonah Platt: He

[00:10:51] Gail Simmons: made applesauce, which was also a staple in our house, which I associate with Jewish foods because that is what we ate with our latkes and with everything [00:11:00] else, but specifically with latkes, um, at Hanukkah. And my mother made the best latkes. And I still say that her method is the best method.

[00:11:09] Gail Simmons: Okay. We're going to have to ask you about that later. Um, but also pickles. My father made full sour kosher dill pickles in mason jars in my basement and kept them in his wine cellar that we would eat all year long. And we ate them after school as snacks, but they were on every Friday night Shabbat table.

[00:11:28] Gail Simmons: On every Passover Seder table, on every, at every Hanukkah party, like, I will forever associate his pickles with my Jewish upbringing. When I got married, I got married here in New York City, um, 16 years ago, and I wanted my father to make pickles as a gift to give to all the guests at our wedding. But it proved difficult to cross a border.

[00:11:53] Gail Simmons: with that many jars of liquid. So him making the pickles and bringing them from Canada was out of the question. [00:12:00] So instead I got um, a Lower East Side pickle maker to make me, you know, 150 jars of full kosher sourdough pickles and we labeled them and the label not as good as my dad's but pretty darn

[00:12:14] Jonah Platt: close.

[00:12:15] Jonah Platt: That's so sweet. Yeah, I love that.

[00:12:17] Gail Simmons: Pickle juice runs in our blood.

[00:12:19] Jonah Platt: Amazing. So you mentioned your mother, you know, her profession was food. Yes. Um, I know she was a food columnist and taught cooking classes in your home. Did you always know you were gonna follow in her footsteps into that industry or just you came to it the long way around?

[00:12:34] Jonah Platt: Not

[00:12:34] Gail Simmons: even a little. I guess I came to it the long way, but I don't think that I could have come to it any other way. I, was very conscious of the fact that my mother was a great cook, never a fancy cook. She was a sophisticated cook in that she was sort of like cooking from scratch. She was going to markets, going to Chinatown to get ingredients.

[00:12:52] Gail Simmons: She was a trailblazer in that way. You know, she believed in like sourcing when everyone else was pulling out their microwaves like in the 80s, right? [00:13:00] For me, it wasn't about fancy food. It was frustrating because all I wanted to eat was the stuff that all my friends were getting to eat at their houses for lunch and dinner and I wasn't invited because their friends parents would say that they were like intimidated because they assumed I was used to fancy food.

[00:13:14] Gail Simmons: So that was sort of the beginning of a bit of um,

[00:13:19] Jonah Platt: Yeah, I get a little rebellion against that. If somebody watching you in your formative years, take your mom aside, but they've been like, Oh, she's definitely going to end up working in food. Like, were you in the kitchen all the time? Were you always cooking?

[00:13:30] Jonah Platt: Not really

[00:13:30] Gail Simmons: till college. I wanted to write for my student paper.

[00:13:33] Jonah Platt: Mm hmm.

[00:13:34] Gail Simmons: I loved writing. I knew I loved writing. And I realized What kind of writing? Well, restaurant reviews. That's what you

[00:13:40] Jonah Platt: loved doing? That's what I wanted to do. Yes,

[00:13:45] Gail Simmons: it seemed cool. And there was no one doing it. So I convinced our student paper editor to let me do it, and they let me do it provided I would also do other kinds of reviews.

[00:13:54] Gail Simmons: So I was writing some things. I had no, I mean, I had no authority to be writing reviews about anything. [00:14:00] And the food in Montreal is amazing, so there was plenty to choose from. And that was the first moment that I realized that that could be a thing. And started reading food magazines in earnest, and cooking in earnest, and thinking about food in a bigger way.

[00:14:12] Gail Simmons: And it was only then that it dawned on me that that could maybe be a job. Which is amazing, because I had this role model the whole time who had been doing it as a job.

[00:14:21] Jonah Platt: In some ways, it's actually sort of similar to my journey in that, you know, like my mom right now is the chairwoman of Jewish federations in North America, and if you had asked me even like two years ago, am I going to be like hosting a Jewish podcast called Being Jewish, I would have said no way, but But here we are.

[00:14:36] Gail Simmons: Here we are. And thank goodness.

[00:14:37] Jonah Platt: And thank goodness. Yeah. Thanks. What was the Jewish community around you growing up in Toronto like?

[00:14:43] Gail Simmons: I grew up in a really warm, welcoming, conservative, very sort of traditional Jewish community. I wouldn't say, I didn't go to Jewish day school, but we belonged to a synagogue that my family was very, and very, uh, [00:15:00] active in.

[00:15:01] Gail Simmons: Uh, I went to Hebrew school there three days a week, three days a week. I mean, if I could get my daughter to just focus for two hours, I'd be so happy, but it wasn't, it was a non negotiable. I sang in the shul choir. I did all the shuls.

[00:15:16] Jonah Platt: Wait, hold on. What kind of shul plays? Give me a shul play.

[00:15:19] Gail Simmons: I did a lot of musicals, actually, growing up.

[00:15:21] Jonah Platt: I don't know that I've ever heard the phrase shul musical. I know. There was a

[00:15:25] Gail Simmons: musical program. There was like a musical theater program. Yeah.

[00:15:28] Jonah Platt: So we know what it was like growing up. What's the Jewish community vibe there now? In this post October 7th world. Uh, layered question. Yes.

[00:15:35] Gail Simmons: Uh, it has changed. For sure.

[00:15:37] Gail Simmons: I mean, I think that we grew up, I grew up in an enormous amount of safety in a community that was broad and inclusive. And I still feel that way, but, uh, you know, the, there has been an extraordinary outlash of antisemitism across Canada, across the world, and you definitely feel it in Canada. Um, a [00:16:00] lot of my friends who I grew up with, who I'm still very much in touch with, have children in Jewish day schools there who have been profoundly affected by acts of antisemitism in their children's schools.

[00:16:12] Gail Simmons: Um, And I think in general there's just a lot of fear and a lot of sadness and grief around the way that our community has always been. Um, you know, we've always thought of ourselves as connected to the bigger community of Toronto and Canada and it's a really strong community and it's, and it still is, but I definitely feel there's been an enormous amount of loss there.

[00:16:38] Gail Simmons: Although they've also been incredibly active and, um, and, dedicated to keeping that community alive and well.

[00:16:49] Jonah Platt: On my list of where people are watching this show from Canada's number two. A number of my

[00:16:53] Gail Simmons: friends, I taught, I was away with some girlfriends last week and I told them that I was coming home to be on your podcast.

[00:16:58] Gail Simmons: They were very excited.

[00:16:58] Jonah Platt: Oh, I love that. [00:17:00] Um, while we were at lunch, you said something I thought was really interesting that in terms of the, the makeup of Canada, it's more a mosaic than a melting pot. I thought that was really fascinating. What do you mean by that? You

[00:17:11] Gail Simmons: know, it's. It's a saying that we as Canadians say often, but really until I lived in the states, I didn't understand it fully.

[00:17:19] Gail Simmons: And it's sort of a non scientific hypothesis about the diversity of Canada. Canada is an incredibly diverse place. It's an extraordinary place made up largely of immigrants because it's a very young country, not dissimilar to the U. S., but it's 100 years younger than the U. S. There is still this sort of siloed feeling that as much as it is a diverse country, I think that we identify first as our ethnicity and then as Canadian.

[00:17:49] Gail Simmons: Whereas here in the United States, and I've lived here now just as long as I lived in Canada, I think Americans identify first and foremost as American and then [00:18:00] by whatever ethnicity they have or their heritage. I think that's right. I feel it. Yeah. I feel a difference.

[00:18:06] Jonah Platt: I, I feel like for some people since October 7th, for some Jewish Americans, that maybe that order is flipping.

[00:18:14] Jonah Platt: Um, as you know, but, uh, but I certainly have observed the same as, as you just outlined.

[00:18:19] Gail Simmons: I also notice that when I moved to New York, which obviously has a massive Jewish population, the majority of friends here or Jews that I meet here are very quick to tell me that they are, what's the term they use? Um, culturally Jewish.

[00:18:41] Gail Simmons: They make that distinction. They're always very quick to say, I'm culturally Jewish, meaning I was born Jewish and I eat a latke on Hanukkah. And that's all, that's fine. That's totally great. I'm not like judging that in any way, but interestingly how I was raised. Now coming to the States, I feel like I am one of the most religious people I know.

[00:18:58] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:18:58] Gail Simmons: Not that I'm religious, [00:19:00] and, and it's actually not about religion, or even about spirituality, although I do think I'm possibly more spiritual than most of the Jewish Americans I know, but more culturally observant.

[00:19:12] Jonah Platt: Right. More Jewish literacy.

[00:19:14] Gail Simmons: More Jewish literacy.

[00:19:15] Jonah Platt: Yeah, I have felt the same way at times where I'll be on like a Jewish program even, and you know, I grew up being conservative like you, and a lot of my cousins and family are more modern orthodox, and I was around a lot of orthodox, so I never viewed myself as being at the top of the observancy chain, but then I'll get into a space here, even a Jewish one, and I'm like, Oh, I'm the only one that knows this prayer.

[00:19:35] Jonah Platt: That's interesting. Right.

[00:19:37] Gail Simmons: Yeah. That is exactly the feeling I have.

[00:19:38] Jonah Platt: Yeah. I'm assuming you guys celebrated Shabbat growing up.

[00:19:42] Gail Simmons: Absolutely.

[00:19:42] Jonah Platt: Do you still do that with your own family?

[00:19:44] Gail Simmons: I do. We aren't as excellent about doing it every Friday night, but it is something that our children, especially if we're with any other family, if our grandparents or our cousins are with us, we absolutely do.

[00:19:55] Gail Simmons: And we try to as much as we can, if anything, just light [00:20:00] candles

[00:20:00] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:20:00] Gail Simmons: Say a prayer over wine and challah and have a moment.

[00:20:04] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:20:04] Gail Simmons: There's nothing either of my children love more than like dipping their challah in their grape juice.

[00:20:10] Jonah Platt: Challah in the grape juice?

[00:20:12] Gail Simmons: That's their thing. They love it.

[00:20:13] Jonah Platt: I was like, is she going to say soup?

[00:20:15] Jonah Platt: Is she going to say honey? They also say soup.

[00:20:17] Gail Simmons: Sometimes salt. You know, my, my father in law insists that we dip it in a little salt.

[00:20:22] Jonah Platt: I love a challah dip in the chicken soup. Oh yeah. Of course. The greatest. They

[00:20:26] Gail Simmons: like to dip it in the grape juice. The grape

[00:20:27] Jonah Platt: juice. All right. You know, these days it's thing weird,

[00:20:30] Gail Simmons: but they like it.

[00:20:30] Gail Simmons: I kind of get it.

[00:20:31] Jonah Platt: When you guys get together for holidays, who cooks?

[00:20:34] Gail Simmons: Interestingly, my mom and I don't cook together so much.

[00:20:37] Jonah Platt: Hmm.

[00:20:38] Gail Simmons: I cook in my kitchen for her and she cooks in her kitchen for me. I cook for my kids, uh, if I'm home in her kitchen. But she it's her kitchen and I sort of respect that we don't cook so well together anymore, which is too bad.

[00:20:52] Gail Simmons: But also we respect each other,

[00:20:54] Jonah Platt: right? Well, you're both like, yes, we're territorial.

[00:20:58] Gail Simmons: Um, my mother in [00:21:00] law, when I spend holidays there, we cook together a lot. She's also a great cook, a really enthusiastic cook. And we cook together all the time. Maybe because there's lower stakes. You know, for whatever reason, she's actually taught me a lot of Jewish recipes that I didn't know about beforehand, you know, just from her, their side of the family.

[00:21:18] Gail Simmons: Yeah, it opened up a whole new vocabulary of Jewish food for me, but they're always my latkes. Hanukkah is absolutely my latkes all the time.

[00:21:27] Jonah Platt: Are they your mom's recipe? Yes, which are

[00:21:29] Gail Simmons: really my Aunt Sue's recipe.

[00:21:30] Jonah Platt: Okay. We got to give props to Aunt Sue. Yeah, she's the

[00:21:32] Gail Simmons: best.

[00:21:33] Jonah Platt: Okay. Awesome. What, what makes those latkes so fantastic?

[00:21:36] Gail Simmons: Two things. One, I use a food processor to shred them, which is kind of controversial. Is it? What

[00:21:42] Jonah Platt: else do people use? A lot of

[00:21:43] Gail Simmons: people still believe that you can only use a box grater, like a cheese grater, to grate them. My problem with that is the strands get very, are very short and, follow me here, if you're grating Very short strands and packing them in together.

[00:21:59] Gail Simmons: They're [00:22:00] packed a lot more tightly, which means they're a denser latke

[00:22:04] Jonah Platt: As

[00:22:04] Gail Simmons: opposed to longer strands right that sort of give way to an airier crunchier I'm looking for that crunch some people are really against it. Like I get Jewish mamas telling me that if it's not set on a box grader, like they don't want to hear about it.

[00:22:18] Gail Simmons: Relax. Old school versus new school.

[00:22:20] Jonah Platt: I guess.

[00:22:20] Gail Simmons: The other thing is I put a lot of dill in my latkes, which also can be polarizing, but I love it. I

[00:22:25] Jonah Platt: think dill is never the wrong answer.

[00:22:27] Gail Simmons: Agreed.

[00:22:28] Jonah Platt: Yeah. Um, this from the pickle aficionado. Yes,

[00:22:31] Gail Simmons: exactly.

[00:22:31] Jonah Platt: Um, you're known for this famous family brisket recipe that belonged to your mom that you've judged up a little bit.

[00:22:37] Jonah Platt: Yes. I looked up this recipe. It looks absolutely ridiculous, but it looks really hard to make.

[00:22:44] Gail Simmons: Here's the thing about brisket. It's sort of how you have to make it. Brisket is a, is a cut that can't be quickly tenderized. You know, it's a tough cut of meat. It requires braising. And if you're gonna do it properly, I don't know if there's a [00:23:00] brisket recipe anywhere in the world that's gonna take shorter than three hours to make.

[00:23:04] Gail Simmons: Right. If you're cooking for a crowd.

[00:23:06] Jonah Platt: Okay, so you already talked about being at McGill. You're writing restaurant reviews. I don't know, it looks like your career is maybe going to be a food critic or something. And then you go to culinary school in the United States. Yes. Was that about trying to, I'm going to be a chef now?

[00:23:19] Jonah Platt: Or is it like, I need to get, you know, grad school food experience to then become this writer?

[00:23:23] Gail Simmons: You nailed it. That

[00:23:24] Jonah Platt: was it.

[00:23:24] Gail Simmons: Grad school food experience.

[00:23:25] Jonah Platt: Right.

[00:23:26] Gail Simmons: So I went to culinary school and moved to New York. I left the newspaper, did a year of culinary school. And then they convinced me to go cook as opposed to what I thought I was going to do, which was, Oh, I've finished culinary school.

[00:23:39] Gail Simmons: Now I can go and get a job at Food and Wine Magazine and work in their test kitchen. And maybe I could have, but I'm really glad that they convinced me to cook professionally because that was really where the learning happened, right?

[00:23:52] Jonah Platt: Okay, so then you end up at Food Wine magazine directing special projects.

[00:23:56] Jonah Platt: Yes. Including the Aspen Food Wine Classic. Correct. Which as all [00:24:00] Top Chef viewers know is part of the prize package. For winning the show. Along with the cover story in the magazine. So I'm sensing there had to be some kind of bridge between Oh yeah, there was a bridge. you being at Food Wine to you being on Top Chef.

[00:24:11] Gail Simmons: It was about a year into my time at Food Wine When Bravo came to Food Wine to our, our publisher and our, um, assist, associate publisher at the time, my bosses, and said, we have this crazy idea for a show. They had just launched Project Runway to much acclaim.

[00:24:29] Jonah Platt: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:29] Gail Simmons: And they wanted to spin it off into the kind of the other pillars of what Bravo was doing at the time.

[00:24:35] Gail Simmons: And the first was food. But they admitted that they didn't know anything about food. They had never done a food show before.

[00:24:40] Jonah Platt: Yeah, so Bravo wasn't doing food. You said what they were doing at the time, and they weren't doing anything like this. The

[00:24:44] Gail Simmons: only thing they had about food was Queer Eye. And they had Ted Allen, who was the food guy, on the original Queer Eye.

[00:24:52] Gail Simmons: And those five guys, the fabulous five, Became the pillars by which for a while all of Bravo did is [00:25:00] programming

[00:25:00] Jonah Platt: interesting So

[00:25:01] Gail Simmons: for a while there was fashion food hair Um design and pop culture, right? Those were the five sort of categories of bravo This was you know in the early aughts And they came to food and wine to say teach us about food You know give us a door to the world of chefs and food and helping us discover young talent in exchange You If we like one of your editors, we'll put them on the judges panel to represent the magazine on the show.

[00:25:28] Gail Simmons: They sent me for a screen test. I had also never known what a screen test was.

[00:25:32] Jonah Platt: Who's they? The people at your magazine? My publisher, yeah.

[00:25:34] Gail Simmons: Food and Wine Magazine. They put me in a room with a camera on and asked me a whole bunch of questions. And about three weeks later, called my publisher and said, Tell Gail we're flying to San Francisco to shoot the first season of this show.

[00:25:45] Gail Simmons: Wow. And it was absolutely bone chillingly Scary, you just have no idea how anything is going to turn out and will it be gimmicky more than anything? Will our industry think that we were a joke because we [00:26:00] wanted to make a serious the real life of young chefs, finding the next great kind of industry stars, but could we do that without it feeling cheesy or, you know, kitschy,

[00:26:14] Jonah Platt: right?

[00:26:14] Jonah Platt: Speaking of Mazel Tov, this is your high year anniversary of the show. That's right. Um, in Hebrew, all. Uh, letters have number values. Uh, the word Chai means life and the letters Chet and Yud equal 18. Uh, so that's why it's the Chai year anniversary. That's, I mean, that's nuts.

[00:26:31] Gail Simmons: It is nuts. It's amazing to think that, like, the majority of my adult life has been spent making this show.

[00:26:36] Jonah Platt: Bravo's with their, their, like, one cooking show still that, you know, is before Below Deck Mediterranean. Yes. And here you guys are, season 22. Nothing in common, although we've always really

[00:26:44] Gail Simmons: wanted to do a, like, Tom on Below Deck cooking. Oh, I would

[00:26:48] Jonah Platt: watch that.

[00:26:49] Gail Simmons: Mash up. I think it would be incredible. Our crew is always gunning for it.

[00:26:53] Gail Simmons: He will have nothing to do with it. Sure. We We're lucky to be in the moment. We were in in pop culture [00:27:00] In the world of food.

[00:27:01] Jonah Platt: Yeah,

[00:27:01] Gail Simmons: there's two things about the format of the show that I think Len, you know have been a reason for its success for sure one is that we change location every season. It's not a studio show.

[00:27:12] Gail Simmons: Right. Keeps it spicy. We're on location and every location informs the look and feel of the show so much.

[00:27:19] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:27:19] Gail Simmons: And the challenges and the food we eat. And by the food we eat, it allows us to do such a deep dive into the culture, geography, history of a place. So the food becomes so much more than just the dishes that are put on the plates for us every week.

[00:27:33] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:27:33] Gail Simmons: And the other thing is that it's always been about the chefs. They are the backbone. I mean, Tom and I and Kristen, Padma, obviously, for so many years. We were the mainstays, you knew that you were there, like we were there, but our show has always not been about us.

[00:27:48] Jonah Platt: Something that I really admire about Top Chef is the way that you all have handled this, you know, cultural shift in America towards inclusivity.

[00:27:58] Jonah Platt: That's, you know, sort of been mandated [00:28:00] by the culture and you see a lot of Things across entertainment across all industries where they're sort of Jamming it in there. Yeah, but when you guys do it, it's been so organic and smartly done You know you have you've brought in this deep bench of successful former contestants Who are already there are already part of the top chef life and they come in now and bring so much to the table Diversity and different styles.

[00:28:23] Jonah Platt: It's always like about the story and the food and it all feels very organic and natural. And I've loved seeing that. I think there's nobody doing that better, honestly. I

[00:28:31] Gail Simmons: appreciate that so much because we spend a lot of time talking about it. It's what makes the show so interesting because our casting team really Has found and continues to find chefs that like are undeniably now leaders in our industry If you look at the track record of our chefs and that's not our doing, right?

[00:28:49] Gail Simmons: No, they're just great in the platform, but they are Genuinely extraordinary people.

[00:28:53] Jonah Platt: Do you keep any mementos or souvenirs from your seasons?

[00:28:56] Gail Simmons: Yes!

[00:28:56] Jonah Platt: What do you keep?

[00:28:57] Gail Simmons: This year our set was [00:29:00] outrageously beautiful and very Canadian. And you're gonna have to kind of wait and see.

[00:29:04] Jonah Platt: Okay.

[00:29:04] Gail Simmons: But there was some incredible Indigenous art on the walls.

[00:29:08] Gail Simmons: And when they took down the set, they let me have a small piece. Nice. And it felt really, really meaningful. And I have it now hanging in my house. So that's, that's great.

[00:29:18] Jonah Platt: Do you guys have a nickname for the show, like a shorthand or is it always, when you're talking, it's Top Chef, Top Chef.

[00:29:22] Gail Simmons: Chef. Chef.

[00:29:24] Jonah Platt: One of the most successful Jewish chefs to compete on the show was Sarah Bradley from Kentucky.

[00:29:28] Jonah Platt: Yes. Who incorporated a lot of Jewish inspiration into her dishes, which was really cool to see as a Jew at home. Was there any, like, connection between you two over that aspect of your

[00:29:38] Gail Simmons: She came back for All Stars. Right,

[00:29:39] Jonah Platt: and that's where I remember her doing a lot of the Jewish stuff.

[00:29:42] Gail Simmons: Absolutely. We do get to know them pretty well just from Serving and judges table, you know the time we spend with them on camera so I got a sense of who she was that way and certainly from some of the food and I think there was an understanding that I got what she was going for.

[00:29:57] Gail Simmons: Mm

[00:29:58] Jonah Platt: hmm. I have to ask it. When are we getting [00:30:00] a Jewish food challenge? Like it's

[00:30:01] Gail Simmons: a good question, you

[00:30:02] Jonah Platt: know, I have many ideas Yes, it's we yes, you know shabbat dinner challenge Whatever makes a shabbat dinner and that we do like a rosh hashanah quick fire apples and honey We could do like learning from a jewish persian guest chef.

[00:30:14] Jonah Platt: Yes, I like it If you're looking for a jewish consulting producer, you're doing an excellent job

[00:30:18] Gail Simmons: producing

[00:30:19] Jonah Platt: get some like a shuck episode They got to run through the shuck and gather things. There's

[00:30:23] Gail Simmons: so many things i'd like to do.

[00:30:24] Jonah Platt: Yeah You

[00:30:25] Gail Simmons: The challenges start with the context of where we are, right? First and foremost, and that sort of informs a lot of things.

[00:30:32] Jonah Platt: Sure.

[00:30:33] Gail Simmons: So that's why it's been hard to necessarily, out of nowhere, just have a Jewish challenge. But, there is something this season that isn't quite Jewish, but that is. speaks to a lot of Jewish flavors and ingredients and it was one of the best episodes, I think, from a creativity standpoint that our chefs have ever done.

[00:30:55] Gail Simmons: Wow. We were all in awe of them. So I'm really excited [00:31:00] for the world to see that. I don't necessarily think that people will identify it as a Jewish challenge. Mm hmm. But it's undeniable that there are elements of Of judaism in the ingredients we use very mysterious. No, it's

[00:31:12] Jonah Platt: fine I don't know. You're probably under some sort of nda, but it's i'm psyched now.

[00:31:16] Jonah Platt: I'm even more fun. That's awesome The crew everybody such a warm long standing familial environment Um since october 7th, have you felt supported by this community? Has there been difficulties?

[00:31:28] Gail Simmons: It's a great question Yeah, it's been on my mind a lot or it was on my mind a lot going into this season It occurred to me that The last time we were all together was before October 7th.

[00:31:40] Gail Simmons: We wrapped season 21 in Wisconsin. Um, I think we were sort of home before October 1st. And then we met up for a week of the finale in early November, but so much was yet to unfold. And coming back for the season, it occurred to me. [00:32:00] And I had never qualified it this way That there aren't actually a lot of other jews on my set of this 150 person amazing group There are a few

[00:32:11] Jonah Platt: sure,

[00:32:12] Gail Simmons: but I guess I had taken it for granted and never thought about it before.

[00:32:15] Jonah Platt: Yeah,

[00:32:16] Gail Simmons: and I Had fears, but overall I have felt Enormously supported there are certainly people with different views than me on the set.

[00:32:25] Jonah Platt: Mm hmm

[00:32:26] Gail Simmons: our production company magical elves is very serious about setting up a conversation in advance about what is Appropriately brought to work every day and just from an HR perspective making sure that we are an inclusive Kind positive environment to work in for everybody.

[00:32:44] Jonah Platt: Mm hmm,

[00:32:45] Gail Simmons: and that is was really important to me

[00:32:48] Jonah Platt: Yeah

[00:32:49] Gail Simmons: The people that I work with the most, especially Tom and Kristen, have never shown anything but support and love and appreciation for me in a [00:33:00] time of need. They have, they have been by my side from the start and very vocal and also just you know, as true friends, been there for whatever I need and have honored that, which I've been really grateful for.

[00:33:13] Jonah Platt: That's so great to hear. And,

[00:33:15] Gail Simmons: and same really with the people who I'm, you know, working the closest with day to day, the makeup artists and our head of wardrobe and her team and the producers that I work with on the, you know, the, the, the kind of senior producers that I'm working with and talking to many times a day, our director, um, and, and the, you know, the, So I never felt even an ounce when I was there like we weren't all there for the right reasons and that we didn't make each other Like we never made any, no one ever made me uncomfortable being on set at all.

[00:33:49] Jonah Platt: That's so great to hear. I'm really glad to hear that. Yeah,

[00:33:52] Gail Simmons: but it was definitely top of mind.

[00:33:54] Jonah Platt: Yeah, I, as it has been for everybody. Yes. Um, did, did discussions about, um, The [00:34:00] conflict in current events come up, you know, in the downtime. Only in

[00:34:03] Gail Simmons: downtime. Absolutely.

[00:34:05] Jonah Platt: In like a shoot the shit kind of a way? In a shoot the shit kind of way.

[00:34:08] Jonah Platt: Or

[00:34:08] Gail Simmons: sometimes more serious. You know, Tom isn't really a shoot the shitter.

[00:34:12] Jonah Platt: Mm hmm. I can get that vibe. Yeah,

[00:34:14] Gail Simmons: I mean, He's a great conversationalist. Sure, sure. But his conversations are serious. And he is an incredible activist, an incredible, um, advocate in general for a lot of things, um, you know, and, and I think he's also been really vocal and supportive of the Jewish predicament in America right now.

[00:34:33] Gail Simmons: He is, he's married to a Jewish woman whose mother is a Holocaust, her parents were Holocaust survivors. Most of her family live in Israel. He's raising his children Jewish. I was at his son's bar mitzvah last year. Oh my gosh. So he is, you know, deeply, deeply, um, aware of the issues and his ability to articulate it is actually remarkable.

[00:34:53] Gail Simmons: And he's, he's been incredibly helpful and supportive.

[00:34:57] Jonah Platt: That's so fantastic. That's got to feel [00:35:00] so good. It

[00:35:00] Gail Simmons: does. You just need an ally.

[00:35:02] Jonah Platt: Yeah, the allies feel the best. It really does. You've been vocal and visible in your support for the Jewish community on social media and through your cooking on tv and So, uh shortly after october 7th, you posted the following.

[00:35:15] Jonah Platt: I am a proud jew We account for only 0. 2 percent of the world population and I feel compelled to use my voice I'm tired of buts and whatabouts anytime I see anything positive about israel I'm begging you to acknowledge our pain grief and fear without qualification I'm asking you to stand up against anti semitism I am daring you to celebrate our humanity.

[00:35:36] Jonah Platt: Beautiful statement. Thank you. Um, how was it received?

[00:35:39] Gail Simmons: Very positively.

[00:35:41] Jonah Platt: Good.

[00:35:41] Gail Simmons: Uh, when I wrote that, it took me a long time.

[00:35:45] Jonah Platt: Clearly a lot of thought went into that.

[00:35:47] Gail Simmons: Um, more time than, I mean, I was petrified, truthfully, to post anything.

[00:35:51] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:35:51] Gail Simmons: I didn't ever feel like that was my, I never felt that there would be a time, I could never have imagined a time where I had need to have said those words [00:36:00] so clearly.

[00:36:01] Gail Simmons: Um, and, and, um, and that it could ever be met with anything. Otherwise, right? This has all been so unfathomable. Um, I definitely had some help in finishing it by, um, Our mutual friend, Khan. Our mutual friend, Khan, who is an extraordinary advocate and helped me really to get it through the, across the finish line because I was so afraid.

[00:36:22] Jonah Platt: Wow.

[00:36:23] Gail Simmons: Largely, it was met with positivity. I've never had something sort of, I guess, go viral in that way. I've never had anything that so many people came out of the woodwork to talk about to me or reach out to me about, uh, on both sides of the argument.

[00:36:40] Jonah Platt: Uh huh.

[00:36:40] Gail Simmons: And yes, certainly, uh, I understood that by saying it, I would polarize a lot of people.

[00:36:46] Gail Simmons: And there's always going to be people, obviously, who dissent. There's always going to be people who tell me to just stick to food. That is something people love to say, right? It happens to everyone. Because we are one dimensional, right? We can't cook [00:37:00] and also have feelings or also identify culturally.

[00:37:02] Gail Simmons: You're only the thing I watch you on

[00:37:03] Jonah Platt: TV for.

[00:37:03] Gail Simmons: That's right.

[00:37:04] Jonah Platt: I mean, that's everybody in every industry who dares to say anything outside of the very narrow lane for which we know them.

[00:37:11] Gail Simmons: That's right. And so it was fairly, it really felt like new territory to me and my husband. Actually the original idea for the post Was my husband writing it.

[00:37:22] Gail Simmons: He couldn't sleep. None of us could sleep, but he woke up one night and wrote it down First draft. Yeah.

[00:37:28] Jonah Platt: Yeah

[00:37:29] Gail Simmons: and gave it to me and I sort of started working on it and posting it and he Has been incredibly encouraging too because this is something very personal for him As it is for us all for all those same reasons and uh, and so You I was really grateful that I did it, like happy and relieved, and As many bridges as it might have burned.

[00:37:50] Gail Simmons: I definitely saw my followers go down in that period somewhat. Um, moreover the, you know, the months that followed certainly, I definitely saw [00:38:00] a lot of vicious hate in certain ways, but I think that like anything that you say publicly, those are the loudest voices, but they are not the majority of the voices.

[00:38:13] Gail Simmons: And I think by and large the positivity that came of it, the connections I made, the community that reached out to me. Like you. Yeah. And so many others, no not known friends from years ago that I hadn't spoken to, people I never knew, strangers on the street. Um, I think that far surpassed any fear of anything else that I was worried about and it ultimately put more into focus my voice and, and who I am as a person and I can't pretend to be anything else.

[00:38:47] Jonah Platt: Can, can you articulate what it was you were afraid of?

[00:38:51] Gail Simmons: My, you know, fear of, uh, I guess just hate, vicious venom ness, uh, hate speech. [00:39:00] Also, I feel as a public person very vulnerable, right? Exposed. I have a family. I have young children. Yeah, who Are only at the sort of very edges of understanding any of this My son is six.

[00:39:14] Gail Simmons: He lives in a very beautiful world, but I want to protect him. Yes.

[00:39:17] Jonah Platt: Thank god for that

[00:39:18] Gail Simmons: Yes, uh, my daughter hears and knows everything but it is very confusing and um, It's just there's so many mixed messages out there. There's so much untruth There's so much confusion on the subject and I want her to feel comfortable about who she is too And then you worry about real acts of of hate Yeah, and Um, it used to feel like something that was so at arm's length from our lives, but not long ago, I woke up one morning to find a big news story that there had been a swastika painted on the jungle gym in the park.

[00:39:51] Gail Simmons: And that is six blocks from my house. Not even. And that was the first time really it felt like it was infiltrating my universe [00:40:00] in a very real physical way.

[00:40:02] Jonah Platt: Mhm.

[00:40:03] Gail Simmons: And. Ultimately, we were not harmed, but it just, it made me realize like we can't, we, as much as we live in a world where I can feel like none of this touches me, it absolutely does.

[00:40:15] Gail Simmons: And certainly after October 7th, I realized just how deeply it touches me and how deeply it affects so many people I know, both here and of course in Israel.

[00:40:23] Jonah Platt: Have there been other times you've wanted to say more or post something else, but you have decided not to?

[00:40:30] Gail Simmons: Um, sure. Sure. Since then, certainly. Yeah.

[00:40:33] Gail Simmons: I feel like I should be doing more all the time. More, more, more. And I'm often overwhelmed by it. Sure. And my issue is always, am I contributing noise or not? Right? Like, what am I saying? That isn't already being said or how much power do I really have? And, and how much do I want to alienate other people or is it alienating?

[00:40:56] Gail Simmons: I mean, I know, you know, this because you've been so excellent at [00:41:00] articulating your feelings on the subject and trying to sort of sift through the That noise, but I do find there are many days where all I want to do is just hug my children and turn off social Media, right? Because that's where most of it lives and I kind of hate that too.

[00:41:13] Jonah Platt: Yeah, it's sort of not real in a way That's right If you don't look at your phone

[00:41:18] Gail Simmons: and say things that mean something that aren't just living on my phone,

[00:41:22] Jonah Platt: right? I will say and you know It's this sort of came up on my first episode with skylar astin who sort of said the same thing He did a big post in october.

[00:41:29] Jonah Platt: They never really posted about it again You For some, some of the same reasons and when I said to him, I'll say to you, which is you being who you are and saying things, no matter what it is, is empowering for people and and makes people feel less alone and makes people feel seen. And so, you know. I would encourage you if there's something on your mind and you feel like maybe I should say this, that you know, it is gonna help.

[00:41:55] Jonah Platt: Yeah, you're right. Guaranteed it's gonna help somebody.

[00:41:58] Gail Simmons: You're right. The amount of times that I [00:42:00] hesitate because I feel like it, there is so much out there and I get lost in it. I really do.

[00:42:04] Jonah Platt: Yeah. You've been to Israel several times. In 2019, you went on a free trip with a bunch of other Jewish food luminaries.

[00:42:11] Jonah Platt: They weren't

[00:42:11] Gail Simmons: even all Jewish. I would say only about 50 percent of our, Which made it even better. That's

[00:42:15] Jonah Platt: even better. Um, how incredible was that trip and like, how do I get on the next one with that crew?

[00:42:21] Gail Simmons: I will get you there.

[00:42:22] Jonah Platt: Thank you.

[00:42:23] Gail Simmons: 2019, I was approached by a close friend in the industry who organized what he came to call like, Chef Birthright, although it wasn't Birthright because a lot of people weren't Jewish necessarily.

[00:42:34] Gail Simmons: But it was a chef trip to Israel to learn about agriculture and the food and restaurant scene and to really do like a very intense dive into the food and people of Israel, the history. And that did not mean necessarily Jewish by any means. The food has always been nuanced and extraordinary because it's just at this crossroads of a million things, right?

[00:42:56] Gail Simmons: A million influences. To see it as a [00:43:00] professional and to see it alongside so many great chefs that I admired and have this moment of discovery with them was so special. And we did so many things. I mean, we cooked with chefs. We went and we cooked in people's homes. We went to, uh, the biggest children's hospital and did cooking demos for the children.

[00:43:17] Gail Simmons: We went to like, you know, food labs and innovation hubs. We went to farms. We ate some of the most beautiful special meals of my lifetime.

[00:43:28] Jonah Platt: Wow. You really packed it in. It

[00:43:29] Gail Simmons: just was amazing. Like countless.

[00:43:32] Jonah Platt: Also, I read you volunteered at a kibbutz. I did. Where, when, how?

[00:43:37] Gail Simmons: I had been to Israel when I was 16 with my family and a bunch of other families for my cousin's bar mitzvah.

[00:43:43] Gail Simmons: And that was sort of the two week bus tour, hit every major site, go from morning till dawn. Right. And we did everything. I mean, you can do a lot in two weeks in Israel. It's a small country, right? And then two summers later, I decided with my boyfriend at the time, my high school boyfriend, that we would go and spend the summer there.

[00:43:59] Gail Simmons: I was [00:44:00] 18. There were no cell phones. I went to the Middle East for two months with a boyfriend that honestly my parents weren't sure was the right one for me and it turned out they were correct. You know, things don't work out. We were 18 years old. Sure. I was working on an unknown kibbutz near the Lebanese border, um, in a town called Nahariya, a kibbutz called Beit HaEmech.

[00:44:23] Gail Simmons: And it was a beautiful, amazing place fraught with problems, uh, as the sort of system of kibbutz

[00:44:33] Jonah Platt: Hmm,

[00:44:33] Gail Simmons: you know started as a movement to farm the land during independence Right and in really socialist ideal of community that is extraordinary in theory But harder in practice as the world changes around it

[00:44:46] Jonah Platt: yeah,

[00:44:47] Gail Simmons: my first job on the kibbutz was working in the chicken farm in the lull in the chicken coop and I worked there picking eggs.

[00:44:54] Gail Simmons: We weren't killing chickens. Although we had to kill the occasional chicken When a chicken was sick

[00:44:58] Jonah Platt: gotta kill a sick chicken. Yeah, [00:45:00]

[00:45:00] Gail Simmons: it's a quick it's a quick just snap of them

[00:45:03] Jonah Platt: Did you do it yourself

[00:45:03] Gail Simmons: once in a while? I was taught to do it. Nice, which was a huge lesson for an 18 year old girl

[00:45:08] Jonah Platt: Yeah

[00:45:09] Gail Simmons: So we picked eggs five times a day from 530 in the morning until sort of 2 in the afternoon and then it got too hot.

[00:45:15] Gail Simmons: And then they moved me to the kitchen.

[00:45:18] Jonah Platt: Hey.

[00:45:19] Gail Simmons: To like the mess hall, you know, where you were, we were serving food for the entire kibbutz about 600 people three times a day. Whoa. And that was my first professional kitchen.

[00:45:27] Jonah Platt: That's cool.

[00:45:28] Gail Simmons: And I learned so much in that kitchen. I mean, you start as a dishwasher and I washed dishes six, eight hours a day.

[00:45:33] Gail Simmons: Whoa. For a few weeks. I just had my, you know. Sony Walkman that I'd gotten from my bat mitzvah. Yeah Clipped onto my

[00:45:40] Jonah Platt: was it yellow pants.

[00:45:41] Gail Simmons: It was yellow. Yes, of course. It was yellow. Why were they yellow?

[00:45:45] Jonah Platt: They stand out.

[00:45:45] Gail Simmons: Yes, they really did and that was a huge lesson in patience and understanding of my ability, sort of mind over matter.

[00:45:53] Gail Simmons: And then they moved me to the breakfast kitchen, and I learned to cook eggs, and I cooked eggs every morning from four in the [00:46:00] morning because breakfast started at 6. 30, and I was making hundreds and hundreds of eggs a day.

[00:46:04] Jonah Platt: What's the trick for making 500 eggs?

[00:46:07] Gail Simmons: Well, we had to cook them in different ways, right?

[00:46:08] Gail Simmons: So there's a scramble where you're cooking, you're breaking and making a scramble mix of dozens of eggs at a time. And you're working on a flat top. Right. So you have this sort of huge scraper spatula instrument that moves it around. I also made fried eggs and I would just kind of crack rows of eggs.

[00:46:25] Gail Simmons: And by the time you get to the end of that row, you go back to the top and flip and it's ready. So you just, you have a huge long spatula. It was great work. I mean, easy to say now, I remember at the time it was sort of torturous,

[00:46:34] Jonah Platt: but

[00:46:35] Gail Simmons: but it was. It's the understanding of how a real kitchen worked.

[00:46:39] Jonah Platt: When it comes to contemporary Jewish food, what would you like to see next?

[00:46:44] Jonah Platt: Like where, where can we expand? What can we do that we haven't done yet?

[00:46:47] Gail Simmons: Well, I think there's a lot that's happening actually, and there's a lot of chefs I love seeing who are doing a lot of really interesting Jewish food, bringing back ingredients that were largely taken for granted and [00:47:00] exalting them.

[00:47:00] Gail Simmons: Cabbage. Cabbage. Things, you know, that all of a sudden, you know, a lot of the food that I associate with Jewish food, like a lot of immigrant cultures, are food that is cheap, that could stretch, things like the brisket, right? Things like the matzo ball. I mean, matzo meal was a very humble ingredient. Things like the beet and the cabbage.

[00:47:21] Gail Simmons: And I feel like that's just one, obviously, little corner of the Jewish universe. Sure, sure. I love how you re center them, and There are so many great chefs doing beautiful things with them, with vegetables that are not just cooked within an inch of their life anymore, but that are shown respect. And also the nuance of Israeli food and the influences from all over the world that Israeli food encompasses.

[00:47:48] Gail Simmons: You don't want to say improving on them because in a lot of ways they were perfect, but I think that expanding, expanding them. And I also am really obsessed with the world of deli. Jewish jelly is not the same everywhere, but I [00:48:00] love the study of Delhi all over the world and how Eastern European Jews took their ways of preserving food to wherever they landed, whether that was New York or L.

[00:48:09] Gail Simmons: A. or Montreal or Argentina, and you find these very similar things that just have evolved to, uh, Makes sense in the place they land. Yeah Yeah And I think a lot of immigrants tell the story that they move to another country and they want to make the food from their Home country, but I have to adapt it to the ingredients they have Sort of two things happen and this is certainly true for Jewish jelly You adapt it to the ingredients that you have but you also then put your technique on to local ingredients which changes Sort of both sides of the dish itself, right?

[00:48:47] Gail Simmons: And I think that Jewish jelly is like such an amazing Focused study of that

[00:48:52] Jonah Platt: now now i'm getting hungry.

[00:48:53] Gail Simmons: Yeah,

[00:48:53] Jonah Platt: so we got to wrap this up. Um, Thanksgiving's coming up pretty soon. What's going to be on your menu?

[00:48:59] Gail Simmons: Good question. [00:49:00] I feel like i'm an outlier I didn't grow up with thanksgiving right because of course thanksgiving is not celebrated the way it is here Sure, it is by far my favorite adopted holiday.

[00:49:08] Gail Simmons: Really? Well, it is universal. It's In America, it's non denominational, and it's really an excuse to cook. It is the day that you just focus on the food. Everybody, no matter who you are, what you do, and it's so traditional, and I love that everyone adapts it to who they are and where they're from. I feel like I'm an outlier in that I love turkey.

[00:49:28] Gail Simmons: So many people tell me they hate the turkey. It's all about the sides. I get it. Turkey can be bland, but I love the ritual of making turkey. I love the basting of the turkey. I love the piling on of the things with the turkey.

[00:49:40] Jonah Platt: What do you mean?

[00:49:40] Gail Simmons: I love the cranberry sauce, and I love the gravy, and I love the mashed potatoes.

[00:49:44] Gail Simmons: And better yet, I love the gravy, and the cranberry sauce, and the mashed potatoes on top of the

[00:49:47] Jonah Platt: turkey.

[00:49:49] Gail Simmons: So, I just feel like it's, it's just soul food.

[00:49:53] Jonah Platt: My controversial hot take is I, I hate Thanksgiving dinner. Why? I don't like any of those foods. Really? I mean, I like [00:50:00] turkey, but it's like Right, you're like, it's fine.

[00:50:01] Jonah Platt: It's fine. Mashed potatoes, they're fine. Mmm. Cranberry, I'm out on. Okay. You know, it's heavy. It's like, you know, I like fresh and light and flavorful. But you can do those things, right?

[00:50:14] Gail Simmons: Like I say, switch it up, Jonah.

[00:50:16] Jonah Platt: I'd like to. I don't host it. I've never hosted it. You know, it'll be my mom's house.

[00:50:21] Gail Simmons: It's hard to change tradition.

[00:50:22] Gail Simmons: I get it.

[00:50:23] Jonah Platt: It's fine. I'll be all right. I get it. I know you will be.

[00:50:26] Gail Simmons: But I say maybe you bring One thing that changes a little bit.

[00:50:32] Jonah Platt: Well, I bring, I bring the wine. Okay, the wine's important, vital. I'll make it, I'll make it have a, I'll make us have a good

[00:50:38] Gail Simmons: time. Yes, okay, I'll take it.

[00:50:39] Jonah Platt: Um, okay, the most important question of this entire episode, How do I get to eat at Restaurant Wars?

[00:50:45] Jonah Platt: Oh,

[00:50:45] Gail Simmons: that's a good one.

[00:50:45] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:50:46] Gail Simmons: You know, you've got a direct line. Yes, okay. So season 23, we can discuss. Okay. The trickiest thing, and people ask that all the time, Of course, I'm like, You don't have an open set. Who are these lucky people, Yes,

[00:50:55] Jonah Platt: they Chili Dog Fair? Yes.

[00:50:57] Gail Simmons: They are friends and family.

[00:50:58] Jonah Platt: In Wisconsin, we know [00:51:00] 200 friends and family.

[00:51:00] Jonah Platt: I don't.

[00:51:01] Gail Simmons: I did know, weirdly, a few people, but it's friends and family of a lot of people, right? We have a big crew, and then there's always the tourism board of wherever we are. And they are helping you get people. Yeah, exactly. But, you will notice in season 22's Restaurant Wars. That an inordinate amount of my high school girlfriends are sitting behind me.

[00:51:22] Jonah Platt: Okay, amazing. So

[00:51:23] Gail Simmons: just look out for them because they're awesome.

[00:51:25] Jonah Platt: I will. I'm going to keep an eye out. Everybody, you heard it here. My dad's in an episode. Oh, that's so fun.

[00:51:29] Gail Simmons: That's

[00:51:30] Jonah Platt: great. It was great. Okay, to end my questions, and then we'll go to some audience questions on something a little more serious.

[00:51:35] Jonah Platt: Sure. What would your message be today about standing up and celebrating the Jewish people and being Jewish? That's a big question,

[00:51:41] Gail Simmons: Jonah. I know. That's why I

[00:51:42] Jonah Platt: saved it for last. Yes,

[00:51:44] Gail Simmons: yes. I will preface by saying that there are so many things I did not appreciate about being Jewish until recently. Mm

[00:51:51] Jonah Platt: hmm.

[00:51:51] Gail Simmons: And I am unable to deny pieces of who I am. The majority of us want the same thing. Yep. Which is to live [00:52:00] safely and peacefully. With people that we love and to be able to show that love and I will say that is a tenant of judaism and that the other tenant I think about more than ever tikkun olam to heal the world is always at the foremost Of my mind at the front of my mind when I think about what I can do In my everyday life right now and that often just means little things patience and kindness Because you never know Where anyone else is coming from and you hope that people will do you the same grace So I would say celebrating who you are and your community has never been more important because it is what makes us human.

[00:52:49] Gail Simmons: It is what makes us civilized. It is what makes us, um, able to live peacefully and safely. And that's, that's all you can do.

[00:52:58] Jonah Platt: That was great. Okay. Couple, couple [00:53:00] quick questions from social media. The Mrs. Barham says they say food has healing powers. What's your go to healing food for yourself?

[00:53:09] Gail Simmons: Hmm. I mean, maybe it's cliche, but matzo ball

[00:53:13] Jonah Platt: soup.

[00:53:14] Jonah Platt: I mean, it's just so good. It's so nourishing. It really is. It's nourishing.

[00:53:17] Gail Simmons: I served it for my daughter and husband last night because they were both feeling under the weather.

[00:53:22] Jonah Platt: Lot of dill?

[00:53:23] Gail Simmons: A lot of dill.

[00:53:24] Jonah Platt: It's key.

[00:53:24] Gail Simmons: Mm hmm. Agreed.

[00:53:25] Jonah Platt: Um, MP7072 asks, What was your favorite camp food at Camp New Moon? Because they also went to Camp New Moon.

[00:53:34] Gail Simmons: Camp New Moon's a Jewish camp. I went from age 10 to age 14 and then I transferred, let, transferred, I moved to a different summer camp, uh, all in Canada, all outside Toronto. There's a very vibrant Jewish summer camp situation. It's fantastic, actually. Uh, and it is by far, like, my strongest memories of growing up in the community I grew up in was this.

[00:53:56] Gail Simmons: Those incredible summers spent at summer camp. Favorite food. I [00:54:00] mean, I remember Tuck, which was at two or three times a week. We got candy and I always What'd you call

[00:54:04] Jonah Platt: it?

[00:54:05] Gail Simmons: Tuck? Tuck.

[00:54:06] Jonah Platt: What does that refer to? The

[00:54:07] Gail Simmons: Tuck shop was the store at camp. Most of the week. It was just for buying supplies that you needed.

[00:54:15] Gail Simmons: You need new batteries for your flashlight. Uh, you need mosquito repellent, things like that.

[00:54:20] Jonah Platt: For, for any Gen Zers listening, a flashlight is a device that you put something called batteries in and it provides light if your cell phone is not around you.

[00:54:30] Gail Simmons: Correct.

[00:54:30] Jonah Platt: Okay.

[00:54:32] Gail Simmons: Thank you. Yep. So, um, but two or three times a week.

[00:54:38] Gail Simmons: the tuck shop would give us, after lunch during rest hour, we got tuck. We got a choice of candy.

[00:54:45] Jonah Platt: We had the same thing. We called it canteen.

[00:54:46] Gail Simmons: Okay, canteen. So very similar.

[00:54:48] Jonah Platt: Okay. Tuck. It was just a random I don't know why we call it tuck, but it's

[00:54:50] Gail Simmons: not just a That wasn't a Newman word. That is like a Canadian Jewish Or just a a Canadian summer camp word.

[00:54:56] Gail Simmons: I always got Twizzlers, Reese's Peanut [00:55:00] Butter Cups, or something called Hickory Sticks, which they don't have in the United States. They're like a potato chip, but they're shredded potato chips, and they have like a hickory barbecue flavor. And they're delicious. That

[00:55:13] Jonah Platt: sounds good. I was like a, I was a Rolos and soda guy.

[00:55:15] Gail Simmons: Yeah. Rolos was solid.

[00:55:17] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:55:18] Gail Simmons: Um,

[00:55:18] Jonah Platt: okay. Last from some lady named Courtney Ann Platt, um, not a question, but please know our son Joey used to play pretend top chef in his little outdoor kitchen and make us the judges. Top chef is a family affair in our house.

[00:55:33] Gail Simmons: Thank you, Courtney. That means a lot. I will say the biggest.

[00:55:39] Gail Simmons: Unexpected surprise about Top Chef when we set out to make it was never Like we did not expect it to be a family show as much as it is Not that we were trying to make some sort of racy show I think the earlier years were a little bit sort of more dramatic a little dirtier a little you know coarse language things like that But the best outcome that we didn't expect was [00:56:00] that so many kids watch our show And it has become like a family tradition in so many households and that is huge for all of us

[00:56:07] Jonah Platt: Gail, please pack your knives and go.

[00:56:10] Jonah Platt: I had to do it. I'm sorry. Does everyone do that every time you're interviewed? No, I

[00:56:14] Gail Simmons: like it actually. No one's ever said it directly to me.

[00:56:16] Jonah Platt: Come on! It

[00:56:17] Gail Simmons: felt kind of good.

[00:56:18] Jonah Platt: Ah, yes. Uh, thank you so much for being here. It's really been terrific having you.

[00:56:22] Gail Simmons: Thank you, Jonah. Really appreciate it.

[00:56:26] Jonah Platt: A million thank yous to my guest, Gail Simmons, for joining me today.

[00:56:29] Jonah Platt: I won't hold it against her that she didn't bring any snacks. Thanks to the folks here at Hoff Studios for having us. Thanks to the Odeon for a great lunch earlier. And thanks to all of you for listening and watching. Please, if you like the show, tell your communities about it. Throw it on the Temple e blast next to the Men's Club lunch above the request for more ushers.

[00:56:48] Jonah Platt: And be sure to subscribe to the podcast and our YouTube. Follow us on all the socials, leave us five star reviews on Apple and Spotify. I'll see y'all back here for the next energizing episode of Being Jewish with [00:57:00] me, Jonah Platt. Thank you to everyone who makes Being Jewish with Jonah Platt possible.

[00:57:05] Jonah Platt: Executive Producer Matthew Jones, Story Producer Sean Libyashvili, and Editor Patrick Edwards of Rainbow Creative. Consulting Producers Bethany Mandel and Ariella Novek of Shield Communications, Social Media Manager Yuval Yosha, Graphic Designer Noah Bell of Bellboy Creative, My incredible research assistant, Samantha Greenwald, everyone at Aura House Studios, the whole team at Jewish Broadcasting Service, composer Gabe Mann, and of course you, dear listeners, who even stuck around to listen to all these credits.

[00:57:36] Jonah Platt: Man, I love you guys.