Episode 6: The “Four C’s” of Productive Conversation + Jackie Tohn
[00:00:00] Jonah Platt: Last summer, I was in New York City working on my musical, The Giver, and as I like to do when I'm in town alone for business, I would often go straight from work to some great downtown restaurant for dinner and grab a seat at the bar. On one such occasion, I popped into Cosme Restaurant on 21st Street and made my way to an open seat, next to a middle aged blonde woman having a glass of wine.
[00:00:22] Jonah Platt: Before I had even pulled out the chair, she asked, Where are you from? I said, California. And she goes, So you're a liberal. This was before my ass hit the seat. I said, I'm Jonah. And just like that, we were off to the races. We proceeded to have a lovely two hour dinner together. I mean, we ended up sharing an entree and a fancy bottle of wine.
[00:00:45] Jonah Platt: She was a 50 something, Polish Ukrainian, hardcore Republican woman who works in finance. And I am none of those things. And yet, we had an engaging and wholly pleasant evening while disagreeing on just about [00:01:00] everything. Which should be the rule, but as we know, in the polarized America of 2024, is sadly the exception.
[00:01:08] Jonah Platt: Upon reflecting on this sorry state of affairs, and the great pleasure I have derived from engaging face to face, IRL with unlike minded people, I thought it might be helpful to identify some of the principles I adhere to that allow for positive dialogue with somebody whose ideas are in direct opposition to my own.
[00:01:27] Jonah Platt: And so, I'd like to introduce to you my system for productive conversations that I'm calling the four C's. C number one stands for curiosity. This one is probably the most important. If you want any hope of success, you must enter conversations with a sense of genuine curiosity. You have to want to hear and understand other people's ideas and ways of thinking.
[00:01:52] Jonah Platt: Be open to legitimately considering them and responding to them thoughtfully, and, here's the kicker, [00:02:00] without any agenda. I promise you, if you enter a conversation with the sole intent to change someone's mind, you're not going to have a productive conversation. Nobody wants their minds changed for them.
[00:02:12] Jonah Platt: Though, they may be open to changing it themselves based on the ideas you present if you do so in an amiable way. Again, sans agenda. What your conversation partner really wants is to be heard. To feel that you are sincerely interested in what they have to say. Even if you don't budge an inch in your beliefs, if they feel you've truly considered what they have to say, it's gonna be enough.
[00:02:37] Jonah Platt: Now, if this level of curiosity is unnatural for you, fake it till you make it. I guarantee that at minimum, approaching your conversations in this way will set the table for meaningful engagement. And to me, that should be the only aim of friendly discourse. See number two is calm. You must enter the discussion from a [00:03:00] dispassionate place of low stakes.
[00:03:02] Jonah Platt: If you're too worked up, it's already over. The fate of the free world does not rest on you making or defending your point. I'm not suggesting you can't be assertive or care about the things you're talking about. You just can't be aggressive about it or angry when the person with whom you know you disagree disagrees with you.
[00:03:22] Jonah Platt: If the conversation gets heated or tense, it's not going to lead to free flowing or satisfying engagement. Scene number three, camaraderie. Allow yourself to be tickled rather than prickled by the outrageous notions of your partner. Laugh, smile, share an entree. Allow your emotional attachment to the subject matter to loosen, just for a little while.
[00:03:48] Jonah Platt: The open, dispassionate sharing of ideas should be a fun exercise in human connection. Intellectually stimulating and invigorating, built on a foundation of mutual respect. Remember, [00:04:00] you're not trying to change anyone's mind, and if it's going well, no one's trying to change yours. You're just two people talking, so be pals about it.
[00:04:09] Jonah Platt: After all, you're here to make a friend, not an adversary. And last, but certainly not least, scene number four. Compassion. You must be operating from a baseline assumption of shared humanity and good faith. That whatever ideas someone may have, it is their own life experience that has led them to this point, not some nefarious plot or mental health breakdown.
[00:04:33] Jonah Platt: Be an understanding and attentive listener. Look for openings to relate and commiserate. Enjoy the discovery of common ground. We're all stuck on this rock together. This is the crew. Treat each other like it. Now, of course, there are boundaries to all this. Of course there are people with whom a conversation of this nature may not be desirable or even possible.
[00:04:56] Jonah Platt: After all, it takes two to tango. But you really [00:05:00] can do a lot of the groundwork on your own just by setting the tone, paving the way with positivity, warmth, and an open mind. All of which cost you nothing. At the end of the day, most of us want the same things. Security. Opportunity. Prosperity. The chance for a better tomorrow for ourselves, our families, and our communities.
[00:05:21] Jonah Platt: Right? Lead from that. Now, please, if you find yourself trying out this system in your own life, Let us hear about it. Shoot us an email or a DM or a comment. Tell us how it's going. I can confidently confirm that if you come correct to conversations, crazy connections can occur. Stick to the Cs. And who knows?
[00:05:41] Jonah Platt: Maybe one day soon, you and I too will find ourselves happily disagreeing over a bottle of wine and a massive plate of duck carnitas. This is the sixth episode of Being Jewish with me, Jonah Platt.[00:06:00]
[00:06:22] Jonah Platt: I first met today's guest back in 2019 when we both sang at a pair of charity events. Five years later, I'm hosting this show and she's one of the stars of the most talked about comedy in the country. And no, I'm not referring to her star turn as an extra on Ghostwriter. Shut up. She's a talented actress, singer, a former Lokonda Lion, which we'll explain later.
[00:06:44] Jonah Platt: She loves pupusas, and she's a proud Jew. Please welcome the beguiling Jackie Tone.
[00:06:49] Jackie Tohn: What an intro! Wow! You know,
[00:06:52] Jonah Platt: we try here at Being Jewish with Jonah Platt.
[00:06:54] Jackie Tohn: Wow! Wow! I'm so excited to be Jewish with you!
[00:06:58] Jonah Platt: I'm so happy to have you here and be [00:07:00] Jewish with you. I'm so happy to be here. This is fantastic. Thanks for being here.
[00:07:02] Jonah Platt: Oh my,
[00:07:02] Jackie Tohn: oh my, oh my. It's a pleasure. It's beautiful.
[00:07:03] Jonah Platt: So we're gonna, we're gonna dive right in. We
[00:07:04] Jackie Tohn: better.
[00:07:05] Jonah Platt: Um, what is your earliest memory of being Jewish? Like when I say little Jewish Jackie, like what pops into your head?
[00:07:11] Jackie Tohn: It's such an interesting question because I feel so Jewish in my guts. Well, I could say this here and on most interviews I say guts, but here I can say Kishkes.
[00:07:22] Jonah Platt: There you go.
[00:07:23] Jackie Tohn: See, I just like, I'm just Jewish and I don't remember a time that I wasn't. And what I mean is like. It was always in my life. I went to Jewish sleepaway camp. Oh, nice. And so we had like Friday night services and I had a bat mitzvah. So I was in Hebrew school from the time I was very little.
[00:07:40] Jackie Tohn: And I guess the most, the earliest, earliest memory, my mom spoke Yiddish in the house.
[00:07:47] Jonah Platt: Like full on Yiddish or peppered in some words? Well, full
[00:07:50] Jackie Tohn: on to her mother, sister, and brother.
[00:07:52] Jonah Platt: Whoa.
[00:07:53] Jackie Tohn: Who obviously didn't live with us, but whenever she spoke to her own mother, full Yiddish and So [00:08:00] I picked up a bunch of it, but way more than peppered.
[00:08:03] Jackie Tohn: Like, way more than Oy vey. That's so tanzen in zwei Chasenis.
[00:08:08] Jonah Platt: What did you just say?
[00:08:09] Jackie Tohn: I just said with one I heard
[00:08:10] Jonah Platt: Tuchus. You heard
[00:08:11] Jackie Tohn: Tuchus? Yeah. Which is, with one ass, you can't dance at two weddings. Wow. So when I was like a little kid actor and I was crying because I couldn't go to a school dance because I had a callback, she would say, you could pick.
[00:08:24] Jackie Tohn: She wouldn't be like, you have to go to the callback. It was my idea to be a kid actor. I wanted to be an actor. I wanted to be a star, but I was also like, oh, there's a BBYO weekend and I'm gonna, you're gonna have to drive me upstate a day and a half late. Cause I'm shooting an episode of Sesame Street or something or other.
[00:08:39] Jonah Platt: And where'd the Yiddish come from? Like, was your grandmother, did she speak it in the old country? Yes. And was an immigrant? Yes.
[00:08:46] Jackie Tohn: So my grandparents were Holocaust survivors and they were Polish.
[00:08:52] Jonah Platt: On just your mom's side? Yep. Okay.
[00:08:54] Jackie Tohn: They escaped narrowly, of course, as everyone did. It's not like anyone freely escaped.
[00:08:59] Jackie Tohn: Right. [00:09:00] Um, they went, my, my aunt was born, I mean, this is nightmare stories, but my grandma had. twins at the beginning of the war or right before the war and then she went to the hospital and they told her that she lost the twins but she has a memory of giving birth to two completely healthy babies.
[00:09:18] Jonah Platt: Ay.
[00:09:18] Jackie Tohn: Yoy. And then they were running and my aunt was born in Czechoslovakia. And then right after the war, not right after, but a few years later, the only place that would let my grandma and grandpa and my aunt Nadine go was France, was one of the only places, um, that was letting Jews in. And so they were, my mother was born in France.
[00:09:40] Jackie Tohn: Wow. So she's interestingly French, but like. It's like, I'm not, no one else is French. And then they finally came to the U S and my uncle was born in St. Louis. I do remember the question, however, which is the Yiddish, which is they were all over the place in Eastern Europe and going here, there, and everywhere.
[00:09:57] Jackie Tohn: And in the ghettos and the shtetls, the Jews spoke [00:10:00] Yiddish. So when she came here, They spoke Yiddish.
[00:10:03] Jonah Platt: Wow.
[00:10:03] Jackie Tohn: It wasn't a short story. No, but that's, this is what we're here to talk about. You know, we're digging in. It's get insecure that I'm like talking a lot. Okay. No, you're perfect. You're perfect. Uh, .
[00:10:11] Jonah Platt: So we're perfect together.
[00:10:13] Jonah Platt: We love. Um, did you grow up in a particularly Jewish neighborhood like community? I didn't.
[00:10:22] Jackie Tohn: experience anti Semitism, so then I must've.
[00:10:25] Jonah Platt: I mean, you're doing BBYO, you're going to camp. Yeah, I mean, I'm from Long
[00:10:28] Jackie Tohn: Island.
[00:10:29] Jonah Platt: Right.
[00:10:29] Jackie Tohn: So it's like, I'm from New York. We're
[00:10:32] Jonah Platt: on Long Island.
[00:10:32] Jackie Tohn: Oceanside. Where are you guys from? My wife
[00:10:34] Jonah Platt: is from Comac.
[00:10:35] Jackie Tohn: Oh, I knew that, of course. And where are you guys from?
[00:10:38] Jonah Platt: I'm from LA.
[00:10:39] Jonah Platt: I'm born and raised. I'm the first of my line, born in LA. I
[00:10:42] Jackie Tohn: knew that. I knew that. Slayer of Dragons. That's right. So I was on Long Island, so it was like, There were, you know, there were Jewish people pretty much all over the place. And then I moved to L. A., so the only two places I've ever lived, um, have been, have had plenty of Jews.
[00:10:57] Jackie Tohn: Yeah.
[00:10:58] Jonah Platt: Did you celebrate the holidays, like in [00:11:00] your house growing up?
[00:11:01] Jackie Tohn: We did. We were high holiday service people when I was very little, but then we sort of outgrew it, and I have two older brothers, and they didn't really want to go, and I don't know that I did, and my parents really didn't push it on us, but we did Passover, we did Rosh Hashanah.
[00:11:18] Jackie Tohn: Um, you know, for every year after my grandma passed, we lit the yard site candle for my grandma and grandpa. Like, there was always, like, I don't know what Sukkot is, but like, I know that it is, and I know that there's like a lulav and an etrog, and the lovely gentleman will come and talk to me on the street, and I'm always happy to shake and do the thing with them, and it feels good.
[00:11:38] Jackie Tohn: Yeah. But I don't really know what it's for or what I'm doing.
[00:11:41] Jonah Platt: Do you know that it's this weekend?
[00:11:43] Jackie Tohn: No,
[00:11:43] Jonah Platt: so Sukkot starts this weekend. You're like perfectly on theme. I have a Sukkot question in here for later I can't wait. I
[00:11:51] Jackie Tohn: used to go in a Sukkah, my mom's friend Lenore Stamm used to deliver a shalach monas basket every year Of course, Lenore, what a gem.
[00:11:57] Jackie Tohn: Of course, Lenore, and I would freak over the [00:12:00] shalach monas because there would be like really good weird Israeli candy in there and good snacks Okay.
[00:12:05] Jonah Platt: Amazing. So, just, you know, brief little explainer, Sukkot is a harvest festival, that's why there's all these, like, vegetation and fruits and vegetables and stuff.
[00:12:13] Jonah Platt: It's one of the three times during the year where people would pilgrimage to the temple, um, and the, the sukkah is like the hut that meant to be like the huts that the Jews made for makeshift shelters when they were wandering in the desert for 40 years before they got to Israel. Oh. So we relive it together every, every year.
[00:12:32] Jonah Platt: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:12:33] Jackie Tohn: Thank you, Lenore Stan, for the shalach monas. There you go. See?
[00:12:36] Jonah Platt: You said in an interview that your bat mitzvah theme was Hollywood, which has obviously been a lifelong dream of yours. Yeah, of course. Not so unlike your fictional daughter Miriam's Big Apple. Could you believe? I know. Were there any flashbacks while you were shooting that?
[00:12:49] Jackie Tohn: There were so many funny things on Nobody Wants This, like, and I think that was definitely one of them. I'm still so regretful. There was a sweatshirt that I think said like [00:13:00] pizza plus apple equals plus Jewish star equals Miriam or something.
[00:13:03] Jonah Platt: Yes
[00:13:04] Jackie Tohn: How do I not have one of those sweatshirts? To find and there was a box of them because that was the bit that it was like all the merch Yeah, there been so so much I mean it makes me emotional to be honest like to Hora on a television show in 2024.
[00:13:23] Jackie Tohn: It just was, it was nuts. It was so special. It was so close to home. I was channeling my mother every minute of every day and not, my mother's nothing like that. My mother's like, in fact, the opposite. She's like boundary less almost to a fault. Do whatever you want. Someone else has a curfew. What are you going to stay out alone?
[00:13:43] Jackie Tohn: So that was my curfew when I was a kid. So she's the opposite, but just the bump, the joy and the bat mitzvah and the, just everything, everything reminded me of. My childhood
[00:13:54] Jonah Platt: so special. Mm-Hmm. . Uh, do you remember any of your like Torah portion or off Torah from your [00:14:00] bat mitzvah? I don't
[00:14:00] Jackie Tohn: remember my, uh mm-Hmm hmm.
[00:14:05] Jackie Tohn: I was like that kind of thing. Sure. Yeah. That ring a bell. I don't, but I, that came out, that was pretty good. That came outta nowhere. Um, and atonal.
[00:14:14] Jonah Platt: nice gibberish. You repeated it. Nailed it. Yeah. You repeated it. Exactly. The second time I
[00:14:18] Jackie Tohn: did it, I transliterated my Did you or do you read Hebrew?
[00:14:22] Jonah Platt: I read Hebrew.
[00:14:23] Jonah Platt: Okay,
[00:14:23] Jackie Tohn: so I transliterated mine where it was like B A R U C H. Right. You know, the whole deal. Sure. Um, but yeah, I, I, I got my haftora going. I mean, the second they turned it into a song, I got it in two seconds. So you were already
[00:14:34] Jonah Platt: into singing big time at that point in your life? Oh, yes. Oh,
[00:14:37] Jackie Tohn: yes. Um, my dad accompanied me at every, uh, diner, cruise, local pub talent show that there was up until I moved away.
[00:14:47] Jonah Platt: So you, you've been, you've been doing this a long time. You started super young.
[00:14:51] Jackie Tohn: I have been paddling like the Dickens for 30 something years. It's nuts. Truly. It is nuts. When I think about [00:15:00] it now, it's uh. That's crazy. What a journey. What a journey, dude. What a journey. What a journey.
[00:15:06] Jonah Platt: So music, big part of your life.
[00:15:08] Jonah Platt: Music. Uh, you released a couple albums and you were on American Idol.
[00:15:12] Jackie Tohn: I forget that I released a couple of albums. Do you have like just such different versions of yourself in your life that it's like, oh my god, we're Yes, I did play shows at CBGBs at one o'clock in the morning in 2004. Not, not quite like that.
[00:15:28] Jackie Tohn: Okay. Okay. I mean, I've,
[00:15:28] Jonah Platt: my, my path has been like this, but it, like, at least in my head, it all sort of feels kind of linear. Yes. But, um, no, no,
[00:15:36] Jackie Tohn: no. Linear, um, no linear ation for me, my new word that I just made up. Mm-Hmm. , well at all. Like, I was a kid actor, and then it just like wasn't happening and I had a lot of close calls and I had like.
[00:15:49] Jackie Tohn: enough little one off things and nothing ever got on television and so I was just like I want to be doing things. Um, and then by the time, funny enough, the Idol story is just [00:16:00] the briefest version of it is that I just tried out because it was my last possible year because I was so old. How old 28. I was, Jonah, I was so, no baby, I was so old.
[00:16:12] Jackie Tohn: It was the oldest you could be.
[00:16:14] Jonah Platt: I watched your audition tape. It was the oldest you could be. Oh don't, oh god. In preparation for this. I wish,
[00:16:17] Jackie Tohn: I, you know, like I want to Khloe Kardashian that and remove it from the internet. How she had, there was like photos she didn't like and she literally, she's powerful enough.
[00:16:25] Jackie Tohn: They were wiped. My initial audition, I don't need to wipe.
[00:16:29] Jonah Platt: Like for producers or something? Like
[00:16:31] Jackie Tohn: all of, the whole journey up until, It's so
[00:16:34] Jonah Platt: many rounds before you even are on TV, right? It's
[00:16:36] Jackie Tohn: beyond. There was like 120, 000, 118, 000 people tried out that year. And they showed like, Two of the New York State auditions on TV, one was mine, then I went to Hollywood Week, and they showed my auditions in every round, I was like, this is bonkers.
[00:16:50] Jackie Tohn: I got eliminated with a couple other people at the, like right before the commercial break, and then the producers like escorted you away, a shuttle took you to the hotel, and then there [00:17:00] was like departure paperwork slid under your door. You didn't get to say goodbye to anyone, you didn't get to talk to anyone, you were, I, that was in March.
[00:17:07] Jackie Tohn: You'll be
[00:17:07] Jonah Platt: neither seen nor heard.
[00:17:08] Jackie Tohn: That's right.
[00:17:09] Jonah Platt: And ushered away. That is
[00:17:10] Jackie Tohn: right.
[00:17:10] Jonah Platt: That's brutal.
[00:17:11] Jackie Tohn: Wild. It's a fair and um, it's a wonderful business that we've chosen. Right. And there's almost little to no psychological warfare. Not at
[00:17:21] Jonah Platt: all. It's easy. It's for everyone.
[00:17:23] Jackie Tohn: It's for everyone. That's what I like to say.
[00:17:24] Jackie Tohn: Yeah. It's for everyone.
[00:17:25] Jonah Platt: Um, so you uniquely have played quite a few Jewish characters in your career, which is like, Kind of unusual, uh, you, you know, young Fran on The Nanny, Melrose on Glow, Gilda Radner, and now, of course, Esther. Uh, we got a lot of Hollywood Jews who are afraid to even admit that they're Jewish, and here you are, you know, rockin it.
[00:17:46] Jonah Platt: You know, what do you make of that? Making a career out of it.
[00:17:49] Jackie Tohn: My personality, voice, and face don't allow me to deny my Judaism. I am I don't
[00:17:57] Jonah Platt: feel that way. Oh, that's nice. In [00:18:00] looking at you and listening to you. It's not just like I don't know
[00:18:03] Jackie Tohn: why I take that as a compliment. That's self hate. That's like vaguely anti Semitic of me to have taken it as a compliment.
[00:18:08] Jonah Platt: That you That you are I, like, you are, you contain multitudes. Thank you. That's what I mean. I appreciate that. And I, you know.
[00:18:15] Jackie Tohn: Oh, no. Coming up, I played all sorts of random, I remember I played this little, this southern sort of drunk. Jason Lee had a show on TNT called Memphis Beat, and I loved this part.
[00:18:27] Jackie Tohn: The character name, character's name was Delilah Boswell.
[00:18:29] Jonah Platt: Was what?
[00:18:30] Jackie Tohn: Delilah Boswell. Delilah Boswell. Delilah
[00:18:32] Jonah Platt: Boswell.
[00:18:33] Jackie Tohn: And, um, yeah, it was such a dream and I was like this drunk, you know, and it was wonderful, but I think if I'm being true to myself, I think very clearly the easiest thing to cast me in is some version of, you know, the Jewish sitting before you.
[00:18:50] Jackie Tohn: Right. And I, I feel so proud to be Jewish. I feel proud to play Jews. Um, I just think there's something [00:19:00] funny. I did this the other day and someone was like money. And I was like, careful. Yeah. Watch it. But, but kind of, that is what it looks like. But I just mean like, there's like a chewiness to the culture of who we are and Yeah, I think it, it helps in a lot of the parts that I play.
[00:19:12] Jackie Tohn: There's like an authenticity there.
[00:19:14] Jonah Platt: Yeah. I, I've gotten, I've played a Jew three times, once in a movie, once in a play, once in a musical, and I love it. I mean, it's so cool to get to be something that you are in the guise of another character. Of course. Yeah. It's, it's, it's cool. We just don't always get to do that.
[00:19:31] Jackie Tohn: We certainly don't. I would say like these, you know, and the Gilda of it all was wonderful, but it's like, there wasn't any, I mean, obviously more than wonderful is life changing, but.
[00:19:39] Jonah Platt: So cool.
[00:19:40] Jackie Tohn: There wasn't anything in there. It's not like it was Gilda's life story and it was like, you know, her parents and lighting candles or anything.
[00:19:45] Jackie Tohn: It just, she happens to be a Jewish person. Whereas with Esther, she's like, you know, she's very Jewish. There in Temple, there's, you know.
[00:19:55] Jonah Platt: Does playing a Jewish role do anything to your real life connection to being Jewish?
[00:19:59] Jackie Tohn: Um, [00:20:00] I'm not sure. Maybe. I just think like, I've always been pretty connected, but again, like not mega practicing.
[00:20:11] Jackie Tohn: But I think that just who, it's just who I am. It's who my mother is. It's like, we are Borscht Belt people. We just are like, Sticky, silly, loud. We just are who we are. And that happens, the adjectives used to describe us happen to also be a lot of the adjectives used to describe like what it's like to be Jewish.
[00:20:35] Jonah Platt: Yeah.
[00:20:36] Jackie Tohn: So I don't know that playing Jews makes me More or less in touch. It's pretty it's pretty much a straight line.
[00:20:43] Jonah Platt: It's a great answer.
[00:20:43] Jackie Tohn: Mm
[00:20:44] Jonah Platt: hmm Has anyone in your professional life ever done or said anything in regards to being Jewish that's made you uncomfortable?
[00:20:51] Jackie Tohn: Oh I've been so lucky. I've been so so lucky.
[00:20:56] Jackie Tohn: I mean, no,
[00:20:57] Jonah Platt: that's great.
[00:20:57] Jackie Tohn: Oh something happened [00:21:00] Once but I was I used to tour the country doing like musical comedy, but at a school You Um, I think, weirdly enough, I was in Pensacola, Florida, which is weird because in other parts of Florida, we are many.
[00:21:13] Jonah Platt: Mm hmm.
[00:21:14] Jackie Tohn: But yeah, this one girl, and it wasn't, she was just like, she just came up to me and was like, Amber said you were Jewish, that's not true, is it?
[00:21:21] Jackie Tohn: And I didn't know how to answer, because I was like, oh no, I'm here alone. I'm like, what, I don't know, it wasn't, like, the that's not true, is it? Was really weird. Yeah. Like, she'd never met a Jew. And also when I was on American Idol. Um, many, many, many of the, my fellow competitors had never met a Jew.
[00:21:42] Jonah Platt: Yeah. I think, I mean like that's more common than people think, but I, you know, people don't realize how common that is.
[00:21:49] Jackie Tohn: There's just not a lot of us. Our number, our numbers are low. We
[00:21:53] Jonah Platt: small.
[00:21:53] Jackie Tohn: We small. And. given our tiny size, you know, we're going to try and stick [00:22:00] together, obviously. We're not going to, we're not going to go to really Alabama where you are the only one there, you know?
[00:22:06] Jonah Platt: Yeah.
[00:22:06] Jackie Tohn: Like a lot of cultures, you find your little pockets and you
[00:22:08] Jonah Platt: That's right.
[00:22:09] Jonah Platt: Yeah. Was Esther the first time you played a Jewish wife and mother? I
[00:22:13] Jackie Tohn: think so.
[00:22:15] Jonah Platt: How did that feel? You know, different than being the, the ingenue.
[00:22:19] Jackie Tohn: You know me, Olita, as I always play. I did a movie. A couple years ago, and I don't think she was necessarily, I played Bobby Cannavale's wife in this Bill Burr movie, Old Dads.
[00:22:32] Jonah Platt: That's fun. And it was so
[00:22:33] Jackie Tohn: fun.
[00:22:33] Jonah Platt: He's awesome.
[00:22:34] Jackie Tohn: But she, she wasn't like Jewish in the character, but like, I feel like this woman is, is Jewish in this movie.
[00:22:40] Jonah Platt: Okay, so now we're gonna, we're gonna get into the show full on. I can't wait. If I may, I would like to take a few minutes to weigh in on the show myself.
[00:22:47] Jackie Tohn: I think this feels right.
[00:22:48] Jonah Platt: Yeah. If anyone has been following my advocacy since before this show, or before October 7th, talking about Jewish representation on screen and [00:23:00] the desire to see more contemporary Jewish narratives, has been a mission of mine. I mean, I've spoken about it in keynotes, I wrote for Variety about it, I talk about it a lot online, and I'm also someone who obviously has been a TV writer, an actor, a producer, so I do feel I have some amount of expertise on this area, and I feel uniquely qualified to weigh in on this show, which has been so beloved, but also has had some negative reactions.
[00:23:26] Jonah Platt: Mm. For me, I fucking loved it. I think the show is gold. It's like, I love it too. It's everything that I have been looking for. There's never been a show like it humanizes Jews. It wasn't schlocky at all. There's no, always like the butt of the joke. You know, the Jews are never the butt of the joke. It wasn't tropey.
[00:23:50] Jonah Platt: It's amazing that it's like, they're talking about Bate Deans and Havdalah and Camp Haverim. It's like incredible. It really was awesome. And You know, I [00:24:00] always want to see stories that are just contemporary people being people and those people are Jewish, and like, that's what this show is. That's
[00:24:07] Jackie Tohn: perfectly put.
[00:24:07] Jackie Tohn: Contemporary people being people, but in this instance, they're Jewish, so this is a little slice of life of what that looks like. Exactly.
[00:24:14] Jonah Platt: And, like, this just totally check that box for me. Um, and so like one of my favorite moments is in episode two when they're in the car and Kristen Bell's like, you don't look Jewish.
[00:24:28] Jonah Platt: And he's like, well, what should being Jewish look like? Should my nose be bigger? Should my hair be curlier? Like, Those are the conversations we have and the fact that he not only is able to voice that, but also make, he's making light of it in a way that like they have that conversation. But making light of
[00:24:43] Jackie Tohn: it like Jews do.
[00:24:45] Jackie Tohn: Exactly. This is what we do. The
[00:24:46] Jonah Platt: fact that like that's being introduced on TV to millions of people is like just such a win in my book. It was so amazing. You're making
[00:24:53] Jackie Tohn: me emotional. Really nice. I'm
[00:24:55] Jonah Platt: glad. And like, and so I enjoyed it as a Jew for sure. But I also just loved it as [00:25:00] an audience member. It was funny.
[00:25:01] Jonah Platt: It was so charming. It's like the romance. It made me want to fall in love with my wife all over again, which is easy. I'm taking her out to dinner tonight. We're like doing a date. I binge the whole show on Yom Kippur actually in between like morning and evening. Um, And, you know, my wife converted.
[00:25:18] Jackie Tohn: I
[00:25:18] Jonah Platt: didn't know that.
[00:25:19] Jonah Platt: So I have like an even extra special connection. I
[00:25:22] Jackie Tohn: did not know that. I,
[00:25:23] Jonah Platt: very much like Noah, Rabbi Noah, like, like, needed to sort of meet somebody outside the usual circle who had the same kind of soul, but had a different vibe.
[00:25:35] Jackie Tohn: Wow.
[00:25:36] Jonah Platt: Okay. So now that I've gushed, I want to respond to two of the main criticisms that I've heard about the show.
[00:25:41] Jonah Platt: And if I miss anything at the end, you tell me and we'll respond to that. Right. So the two big ones that I've heard are like, Critiques of some of the verisimilitude of like the Jews and the others the portrayal of the Jewish women
[00:25:53] Jackie Tohn: Yeah,
[00:25:54] Jonah Platt: so to address the first one
[00:25:55] Jackie Tohn: sure,
[00:25:56] Jonah Platt: you know people are like Oh the rabbi doesn't wear a kippah outside all the [00:26:00] time or like why doesn't Kristen Bell know the word Shalom or?
[00:26:04] Jonah Platt: Why is he wearing a tallit at a bat mitzvah party? And so my first response to that is who cares? Why do we care about that? Yeah, it doesn't matter It's like have you ever watched a TV show like a medical show with a doctor friend or a legal show? They're like, that's not how we do it. That's not how we do it.
[00:26:20] Jonah Platt: Like who gives a shit. It's a television show It's not a documentary.
[00:26:23] Jackie Tohn: I have nothing to add truly. I mean, it's really exactly how I feel
[00:26:27] Jonah Platt: Yeah,
[00:26:27] Jackie Tohn: it's like and I mean this sort of answers the second question, but it's like It's a TV show
[00:26:33] Jonah Platt: and what I'll
[00:26:34] Jackie Tohn: wait to give my answer for this. I don't mean to interrupt.
[00:26:36] Jackie Tohn: No, but I'm gonna roll here I'm
[00:26:38] Jonah Platt: feeling it.
[00:26:39] Jackie Tohn: I'm living
[00:26:39] Jonah Platt: so you know what? It's a TV show when I say it's a TV show What I mean is like everything about the show is organic to the narrative Yeah Like nothing was like thrown on to be a joke or to be extra or like was wedged in any choice that was made It came from the story.
[00:26:55] Jonah Platt: So like, why isn't the rabbi wearing a kippah? Because if he's wearing a kippah, the entire pilot falls [00:27:00] apart. She can't mistake him for the person who's not the rabbi. There's no meet cute. There's no, there's no series. Thank
[00:27:04] Jackie Tohn: you.
[00:27:05] Jonah Platt: And like, why does she have to say the word shalom? Because maybe somebody watching at home doesn't know what the word shalom means.
[00:27:10] Jonah Platt: And then we explain it to them. And like, why is he wearing a tallit? at the Bar Mitzvah party. That one, I'm not so sure. Maybe they just wanted to like visually shortcut that he's doing something rabbinic and official. That was my guess. I
[00:27:21] Jackie Tohn: don't actually know the answer, but it didn't even, it didn't even, and it didn't even, I was there and I didn't even clock it.
[00:27:28] Jackie Tohn: I was like, yeah, he's a rabbi. He has to eat. He's wearing a salad. I
[00:27:31] Jonah Platt: mean, that would be my guess. So like, bottom line is. We don't care. It got like 99. 9 percent of everything was spot on. And so let's like, stop complaining. That's mostly how I feel
[00:27:42] Jackie Tohn: because I think with the nitpicking, I think it's like, to your point, you are in this game as an actor, writer, producer, we are both.
[00:27:52] Jackie Tohn: As have so many been yearning for this sort of representation that is exactly as you put exactly as you put it. [00:28:00] So authentic and not schmaltzy and not, and all of that. And it just is so good. And so you're not going to get a hundred percent. You're not going to get every single thing. And. Also, he's like a reform rabbi.
[00:28:17] Jackie Tohn: Right.
[00:28:17] Jonah Platt: Oh, I have to throw out another connection you didn't know. It was shot at my synagogue.
[00:28:21] Jackie Tohn: Gorgeous
[00:28:21] Jonah Platt: synagogue. Right? That's why I had my bar mitzvah on that bimah, you know? Ah. Pretty cool. Okay, so then to respond to, you know, the portrayal of the Jewish women, which has been, there's been like many articles of Jewish women saying.
[00:28:34] Jonah Platt: Two that I know of. Two that I know of. I've, I've seen more than two. Oh, wow. I, I've seen none. Good. I've seen none. You don't need to.
[00:28:40] Jackie Tohn: But I've, I heard about one and was sent another and read none.
[00:28:44] Jonah Platt: I never want to invalidate anyone's feelings. Totally. If somebody felt. You know, offended theirs. That's their, that's exactly how I feel.
[00:28:49] Jonah Platt: That's to feel. But here's what, how I would respond. I felt, as I said, everything flowed organically from the narrative. So like, of course his [00:29:00] mother doesn't wanna see him marry outside the tribe. That's very realistic. I know a lot of Jewish moms who would be that way. Also,
[00:29:06] Jackie Tohn: not only is that a Jewish mom thing.
[00:29:09] Jackie Tohn: I'm trying to point to a culture where the mom doesn't want their kid to end up with someone from that culture. Right. And that's just universal. And to your point in this instance with their Jews, but that's like I can tell you how many friends of mine I've done a movie or an Indy or this or that. And the, and the storyline is that their mother is isn't pleased and there's not.
[00:29:31] Jackie Tohn: There's not articles about it. Of course. It's sort of a given that your mother wants you to end up with someone Who's from the culture you're from
[00:29:37] Jonah Platt: right and I don't know even more So I thought they like bought themselves even more with a way because she was an immigrant. She had an accent so like that's very realistic that Uh when your parent is from the old country They're adhering stronger to the traditions and the kids are more liberal and progressive than the parents are so, you know people Saying that she was so You know, negatively portray it.
[00:29:58] Jonah Platt: It just, look, [00:30:00] there had to be an obstacle. Every story has three things. It's got a hero, what they want, and an obstacle that stops them from getting it. If the family doesn't want to not have them be together. Episode one, everybody's
[00:30:08] Jackie Tohn: thrilled for them. What is the show's
[00:30:11] Jonah Platt: over. It's over at the end of the show?
[00:30:13] Jonah Platt: Exactly.
[00:30:13] Jackie Tohn: I think on top of, you know, my other answer, it is that. It's like, It's a TV show. There has to be conflict. There has to be an antagonist. It's me, and it's Tova. But it's like, that's what the show is. Also, for my character, I'd like to say, um, it's not just that Joanne's not Jewish. That's, I think, a much smaller piece.
[00:30:35] Jackie Tohn: That's not at all
[00:30:36] Jonah Platt: for your character. No,
[00:30:37] Jackie Tohn: my best friend is his ex of six years. Of course. I'm like, who is this? Right. And why is she in bright red mohair in the shul? Right. Get her out of here.
[00:30:49] Jonah Platt: And to me, that was very clear. Yeah. That every, it was like a defensive loyalty friend thing. And the same goes for, like, the WAGs.
[00:30:57] Jonah Platt: Oh my god, of course! They were your clique. [00:31:00] And again, they sort of go out of their way to, like, the, the, the shiksas talk about, like, those are the cool mean girls. And it's like, they're, it's aspirational. They want to be like them. It's not, they're not putting them down. It's not a negative
[00:31:13] Jackie Tohn: At all.
[00:31:14] Jonah Platt: portrayal.
[00:31:15] Jackie Tohn: And also, again, with narrative arc. If I'm chillin where am I going?
[00:31:21] Jonah Platt: Right.
[00:31:21] Jackie Tohn: What are we doing? Right. And so, even at the end, when I soften, and I mean, not to spoiler, but this is, I guess, how Netflix is, you binge.
[00:31:29] Jonah Platt: Oh, yeah. I mean, it's Literally,
[00:31:30] Jackie Tohn: it came out Thursday the 26th, the night of Thursday the 26th.
[00:31:33] Jackie Tohn: People were like, when's season two? I'm like, oh my god, the content consumption is terrifying. But all of this to say, when I'm having that moment with Miriam at her bat mitzvah in the bathroom, it's like, That moment, which is one of my favorites of the season, is hopefully poignant to you and to people at home.
[00:31:49] Jackie Tohn: But that moment felt so poignant to me because Of where my character came from, of being so rigid and everything had to be a type of way. And now she's on the [00:32:00] floor in the bathroom at her daughter's bat mitzvah being like, Fuck it, let's cut the dress. Yeah. What have I been doing? I'm exhausted.
[00:32:05] Jonah Platt: Yeah.
[00:32:06] Jackie Tohn: And
[00:32:06] Jonah Platt: she A little Joanne rubbed off there a little bit.
[00:32:08] Jonah Platt: Mm hmm. Just to like, close this loop. Please. The character of Rebecca, like, all they do is talk about how gorgeous and perfect and amazing she is. And they're complimenting her, they're obsessed with her, and at the end she's like super classy when she talks to Joanne So I don't get what the problem is there.
[00:32:22] Jackie Tohn: I mean wild.
[00:32:23] Jonah Platt: And again, like with your character They go out of their way to show that she's a great mom, that she's a cool wife, multi dimensional, that she almost banged Adam Levine Right, I mean of course. It's not stereotypical at all. It was a very unique character. It was just a person.
[00:32:36] Jackie Tohn: Thank you I completely agree.
[00:32:38] Jackie Tohn: Yeah,
[00:32:38] Jonah Platt: and the last thing i'll say that i've heard like it's like You That the, that the, you know, Joanne and her sister are blonde and everybody else is brunette, which it's like It's a visual shortcut. It keeps the juxtaposition alive. It just does some storytelling. And people are like, oh, and then they walk into the bat mitzvah and their hair is flowing.
[00:32:56] Jonah Platt: It's like, oh, here come the cool, hot shiksas to like break up [00:33:00] this boring loser bar mitzvah. But again, like
[00:33:02] Jackie Tohn: party was a rager before they got there.
[00:33:04] Jonah Platt: And also that's like ignoring the context of the story. They're not going there to like show up the bat mitzvah. They're going because the chick who's trying to blow up her relationship is there.
[00:33:12] Jonah Platt: And it's like, I'm going to go be confident and stop trying to please everybody and just go get my man. Mm hmm. And like how many movies, TV shows do you see where like the hero comes into the climax in the slo mo walk. Literally all. All of them. Did I miss anything?
[00:33:24] Jackie Tohn: No, I loved that so much. And when anyone asks me in the future, I'm going to play them this clip of you responding.
[00:33:30] Jonah Platt: That's why I wanted to say this. On my pod, I start the show with a monologue and I like thought about, should I just do my whole thing about nobody wants us as my monologue, but I was like, no, it'd be more fun to do it with Jackie while she's here. But I, I had a lot to say,
[00:33:43] Jackie Tohn: but I might, I might quite literally, um, clip it.
[00:33:48] Jackie Tohn: Please do. Okay, great.
[00:33:49] Jonah Platt: Please do. We'll get it everywhere. Um, so articles aside, anecdotally, what's the feedback that you've gotten from the show from Jewish people? You know,
[00:33:57] Jackie Tohn: I'm so glad you asked that as the followup to the last question, [00:34:00] because that should have been my answer to the last question, which is that every single Jewish person I know, and that's a lot of Jewish, but 75 percent of all the Jews on the planet.
[00:34:09] Jackie Tohn: Um, but Obsessed.
[00:34:11] Jonah Platt: Right.
[00:34:12] Jackie Tohn: Every, I mean, I told you, I went to Jewish sleepaway camp, I went to Hebrew school as a kid, every Jewish person I grew up with is DMing or finding me online and just being like, dude, what? This is for everyone, but like so special to us specifically. And yeah, I just think it's, it's been, it's felt really good to receive and I think it feels really good for the people that are watching it.
[00:34:36] Jonah Platt: I like, think about it. Like, it stays with me. And I'm like, I might watch it again. I don't like re watch shows. But like, it was so quick and easy. Too easy. I enjoyed it so much. And the two of them, their romance is just so charming. It's the best. It really is. Um, did you feel like, There was enough authentic perspective in the writer's room.
[00:34:57] Jackie Tohn: This is actually funny. I don't know who, what, if I'm outing anyone [00:35:00] right now. Multiple people have like either texted or DM'd or told me in person. My rabbi was the consultant on the show. But like, he's
[00:35:08] Jonah Platt: a very well known rabbi,
[00:35:09] Jackie Tohn: but apparently there were many,
[00:35:11] Jonah Platt: which is why only one has been like publicly popularized as the rabbi
[00:35:15] Jackie Tohn: said to someone like, Oh, this guy.
[00:35:18] Jackie Tohn: And they were like, no. And I'm like, are other rabbis. Is this the one that I
[00:35:21] Jonah Platt: have read about and have been told that and saw him speak about was Steve leader. Yes. It was the like emeritus of Wilshire Boulevard.
[00:35:27] Jackie Tohn: Yes. But then there was another one. And I said, Steve leader. And they were like, no. And I was like, Oh, Oh, I just think it's cute that like, but just that there are like rabbis in LA being like, I was the consultant on that.
[00:35:38] Jackie Tohn: It's just like really trying to take credit. It's really cute. I'm sure they did something or spoke to a friend who was in the writer's room. All of this to say, Erin has the unique perspective of, I mean, she probably knows more about Judaism than I do, just because She's a convert. She had to take a course on it.
[00:35:55] Jackie Tohn: And she had to like learn about it. And so like, I obviously know all the things I know. And so we have very [00:36:00] different Jewish experiences. Right.
[00:36:01] Jonah Platt: Did you ever get a script and you were like, do I need to say something about this? Oh, that's
[00:36:05] Jackie Tohn: a good question. I actually called my mom because, um, our costumer, Unreal, this gal in the gar.
[00:36:12] Jackie Tohn: Everybody, everybody looked
[00:36:13] Jonah Platt: amazing.
[00:36:13] Jackie Tohn: The wardrobe was sickening.
[00:36:15] Jonah Platt: Yeah.
[00:36:15] Jackie Tohn: Um, she had me in like this black gown for the bat mitzvah and I had to call my mom and be like, Cause we were obviously black for Shiva and I was like, can we wear black at bat mitzvahs? And she was like, I think Orthodox don't. But then is that wrong?
[00:36:29] Jackie Tohn: I don't know. I have no idea. But then, but then we, we weren't able to get a conclusive answer and she was like, they're reformed Jews. They can kind of do whatever they want. And so I wore the black, but there was another time where we were filming toward, is it called a yurt site wall when you're in temp, when you're in shul and it's the names of the people who've passed.
[00:36:45] Jackie Tohn: We were filming toward it one day and I like. Sort of raised my hand that I didn't know if that was like in good Good taste. In good taste. Where I was like, Oh, I think, and then Tova was like, Oh, you're right. We should, and then we [00:37:00] just moved the shot over a little. So it wasn't just like Tova doing schtick with like a list of people who passed behind her.
[00:37:05] Jackie Tohn: Right. I can picture
[00:37:06] Jonah Platt: exactly where that is.
[00:37:07] Jackie Tohn: And I, I know you can.
[00:37:08] Jonah Platt: So you mentioned Erin, the show's creator, who this was sort of loosely based on her own experience. Did she like set any kind of sort of purpose or urgency to the show? Like based on that? Or it was just like, let's make a great show.
[00:37:21] Jackie Tohn: Let's make a great show.
[00:37:22] Jackie Tohn: I mean, I don't know what her intention or what she was going into it But I think I've heard her on a lot of pods just talk about like yeah I just wanted to talk about the best decision I ever made which was like marrying a Jewish boy and becoming she's just so proud Of it
[00:37:37] Jonah Platt: and
[00:37:37] Jackie Tohn: she's so smart and funny and straightforward and it's she's so no bullshit with like a smile.
[00:37:44] Jackie Tohn: She's just like, Oh yeah, I wanted to make this. So I wrote it. It's like, it's not,
[00:37:49] Jonah Platt: I love it. As I mentioned, you know, my wife converted, which was like the greatest gift she could have ever given me and the Jewish people at large. Weekly shout out to Courtney. [00:38:00] Um, although unlike Noah, I actually brought up conversion on our first date at the very first date.
[00:38:05] Jonah Platt: We had a unique. Start where I told her I loved her on our first date. It's like we were boyfriend and girlfriend before we even went on a date. It's a whole thing. It was just like, you know, Bashar, but she really loved that. I brought it up on the first date. And her response was, so I asked her, I said, would you be open to the idea of converting?
[00:38:25] Jonah Platt: Cause like, I'm serious about you. You're a serious person. If this goes all the way, would you at least be open to discussing it? Cause if not, then like, I don't know what we're going to do here, but I have, it's like, we got to. Figured out and she was like, I really appreciate you bringing that up now If I see that it's important to you and not your parents or your family interesting then Yes, I would be open to saying what would happen.
[00:38:47] Jonah Platt: Um, How do you feel about, you know, interfaith relationships, intermarriage, having a Jewish partner?
[00:38:55] Jackie Tohn: It's an interesting one. Um.
[00:38:57] Jonah Platt: This is a judgment free zone. Oh, sure. Just to, you know, [00:39:00] reiterate. Yeah, tell that
[00:39:00] Jackie Tohn: to the comments. But, okay. Um, yeah, my boyfriend's not Jewish. My, neither of my brothers married a Jewish woman.
[00:39:09] Jackie Tohn: Um, but my parents are very, like, are very culturally Jewish. And so I think it's interesting that none of us, and I've dated multiple Jews in the past and it just didn't, it didn't work out and having nothing to do with that. They just like, they weren't my person. And my boyfriend is my person and he feels very Jewish to me.
[00:39:30] Jackie Tohn: And his grandpa was, um, His grandma converted to Judaism for his grandpa, and so his mom was raised completely Jewish. Okay. Then she converted to Catholicism for his dad, for Joe's dad.
[00:39:47] Jonah Platt: That's so funny. Mm
[00:39:48] Jackie Tohn: hmm. So he, there's, there's Jewish in there. Like he, his energy is very like, for this I bent down, it's very, you know, and it's, it just is.
[00:39:58] Jackie Tohn: And I remember even speaking of [00:40:00] first dates, I was like, um. So I even, I think I said to him, some version of how Jewish are you? And he was like, not, like I was an altar boy. And I was like, well, I mean, no, you're, you're Jew, you're Jewish. You're clearly Jewish. And then I've got the whole spiel about the grandpa and da da da.
[00:40:17] Jackie Tohn: And I was like, were you very close with this grandpa? Because you are
[00:40:21] Jonah Platt: Maybe it skipped a generation. Yeah. Anyway, but
[00:40:23] Jackie Tohn: yeah. How do I feel about it in general? I just think we love who we love. And I, that goes for
[00:40:29] Jonah Platt: Do you, do your brothers have kids? Are they being raised Jewish?
[00:40:33] Jackie Tohn: Both. They're being, they have Christmas and Hanukkah in the house, both of them.
[00:40:38] Jackie Tohn: Um, but like my parents didn't really take us to high holiday services. So it's not like my, that's not really instilled deeply ingrained in any of us where like my brother, but they don't go to church either. Like they don't do, they're sort of, non religious in general.
[00:40:55] Jonah Platt: I feel like a lot of the people who, [00:41:00] like, look at Jews wanting to marry other Jews, they think it's about Jews, like, thinking they're better than non Jews, or that non Jews aren't good enough, or that something's wrong with them, whatever, which is obviously not true.
[00:41:12] Jonah Platt: Sure. I think, you know, You know, it really comes from, like, a Jewish fear of, as so many things are based in for Jewish people's fear, a fear of, like, if everybody intermarries and stops raising Jewish kids, then the people will die out.
[00:41:25] Jackie Tohn: You know, it's crazy. I mean, when we really crunch our numbers, it's staggering.
[00:41:31] Jackie Tohn: And so I understand, you know, we're trying to repopulate a people. And, you know, I'm not helping. But,
[00:41:38] Jonah Platt: well, just to that end, like, I loved seeing a contemporary Jewish character care that his potential life partner should also be Jewish. Not, not that there's anything wrong with the alternative. But, like, I think it's okay to portray a Jew who cares about marrying a Jew.
[00:41:53] Jonah Platt: And I
[00:41:53] Jackie Tohn: think for us, specifically, that there are so few of us, it makes it even more understandable. Like, [00:42:00] well, of course, you would, it's
[00:42:01] Jonah Platt: a numbers game. It's like, there's way more non Jews than Jews to meet out in the world. I think it's important to note that intermarriage and abandonment of your Jewish identity are not like a guaranteed cause and effect.
[00:42:13] Jonah Platt: I think a lot of people believe you can abandon your Jewish identity way before you marry somebody and you can marry somebody and live super Jewishly and raise Jewish kids. So I don't think they're one in the same. And if anything, you know, I think. Especially this time we're talking about, you know, we're, it's a numbers game.
[00:42:30] Jonah Platt: We need to be welcoming more people in and widening the tent. And you know, you, the, to me, like the, the greatest tragedy would be pushing somebody out who is connected to Judaism or wants to feel more connected to Judaism because. They love somebody who isn't Jewish and we're casting them out when they could be such a, you know, treasured member of the community if they would just be let in the door.
[00:42:55] Jackie Tohn: Right.
[00:42:56] Jonah Platt: I think,
[00:42:56] Jackie Tohn: yeah, it's very interesting and we're the, one of the few [00:43:00] religions we, we don't, um, Is the word proselytized right?
[00:43:03] Jonah Platt: Yes, we do not.
[00:43:04] Jackie Tohn: Yeah, we're, we're just like, we're good. Which means we don't, we don't,
[00:43:07] Jonah Platt: uh, try to convert other people to the religion. We don't spread it around with missionaries or anything.
[00:43:12] Jonah Platt: Yeah, we don't, we're just Or, or conquest. Yeah.
[00:43:14] Jackie Tohn: Yeah.
[00:43:15] Jonah Platt: Quite the opposite. We
[00:43:15] Jackie Tohn: just complained about our non dairy stomachs and everyone's like, is that, do I want to do that?
[00:43:20] Jonah Platt: Although that was like not in the show so much. I was so happy. Right. It was not like nobody making an IBS joke. It's like every time I see it, like a Jewish standup, like the first joke is about like what they can eat or not.
[00:43:30] Jackie Tohn: A hundred, you're like enough. I'm like
[00:43:32] Jonah Platt: guys, it's 2024, they've been making this joke for 80 years. At least,
[00:43:35] Jackie Tohn: Henny Youngman began it, of course. And that's,
[00:43:37] Jonah Platt: and I love that there was like, not that on the show. There is a tangible fear right now in Hollywood, that like anything related to being Jewish is going to somehow be like political or incendiary because of what's happening in the Middle East.
[00:43:51] Jonah Platt: I thought this show proves that notion completely false.
[00:43:54] Jackie Tohn: Completely.
[00:43:55] Jonah Platt: Completely devoid of any politicizing or current event or anything. [00:44:00] Did you see or feel that fear at any point in the, in the making of the show?
[00:44:05] Jackie Tohn: Yeah. Um, I, yeah, I just think when we were making the show, we were like, I hope people are open minded and watch this show as a romantic comedy with a charismatic and fun and lovely group of people, some of whom are Jewish and playing Jewish.
[00:44:24] Jackie Tohn: Like it, we just, we, that it's a sort of a trite answer, but that is really what, how we felt like, Oh, we just hope everybody is open and, and enjoys this for what it is. Cause we were feeling like if, people were open minded to just watch it, they would like it. Yeah. We were like, we're like, we got to get them there to the watching couch first.
[00:44:45] Jackie Tohn: And we're hoping, you know, obviously that the premise wouldn't be like, huh, uh oh. But it wasn't.
[00:44:50] Jonah Platt: Not at all. What was it like making a show about Jews? While like outside the set, you know, anti Jewish hate is exploding all over the [00:45:00] country. Did you guys feel that? I mean, was that a thing? We did,
[00:45:02] Jackie Tohn: you know, did and didn't.
[00:45:04] Jackie Tohn: It was like, yeah, I think there, they were sort of two separate things where it's just like what's going on over there is an absolute nightmare wrapped in a disaster, wrapped in the worst thing ever. And then we were also trying to find the joy and the light and the Whatever the word is, of just like being Jewish and making art and jokes and comedy in the face of that, again, as Jews do.
[00:45:33] Jonah Platt: I
[00:45:34] Jackie Tohn: mean, my grandma would tell me about like the jokes people would tell each other in the shtetls during the Holocaust. And I'm like, you had time for a joke while running for, literally on your feet, running from country to country? Also, she used to put lipstick on.
[00:45:48] Jonah Platt: What do you mean? She
[00:45:49] Jackie Tohn: literally would, like, be in a ghetto, like, hiding from Nazis and trying to purge Yeah, it's like,
[00:45:53] Jonah Platt: I'm not gonna look less than my best just because you want me to.
[00:45:57] Jonah Platt: I love that. Three parter for you here.
[00:45:59] Jackie Tohn: [00:46:00] How
[00:46:01] Jonah Platt: has your connection to being Jewish changed, if at all, since October 7th, Since making this show and since, like, doing all this press representing this show.
[00:46:13] Jackie Tohn: Um, wow. So since October 7th, um, I Hmm. Definitely wear my Jewish star, my chamsa more, and my chai more.
[00:46:29] Jonah Platt: Same.
[00:46:30] Jackie Tohn: I feel a little bit like, uh Yeah, I'm Jewish. I'm a, I'm Jewish. Um, I, again, I've been very lucky in my life not to have experienced, uh, too much antisemitism and I, um, a lot of like the online rhetoric is terrifying right now, even from like people I know and people that I thought were, you know, so that's a little bit scary.
[00:46:51] Jackie Tohn: Um, so that has changed a little, but I'm still me and saying what I say and doing what I do. Um, and then the [00:47:00] show. I think the same. Stayed even. Sort of similar to an answer before, like, I am Esther, Esther is me, um, and then while doing press, I don't know, again, like I said earlier, I'm such a straight line.
[00:47:14] Jackie Tohn: I've always been like this, so it's nice to be able to just talk about it and be the person that I am, and similar to your answer earlier of like, oh, it's comfy in this, it's comfy for me here. This is who I am. Yeah. And when I am playing someone completely different from who I am. It's come, it's cool.
[00:47:33] Jackie Tohn: That's cool too, right? But it's definitely different and so I think as far as that affects my Judaism, I think, uh, I am who I am pretty much. Yeah. If that love, that makes any sense. Yeah.
[00:47:44] Jonah Platt: So by now most folks have probably heard the news. You guys are coming back for season two. Let's go baby Mazel to amazing.
[00:47:53] Jackie Tohn: Are you an M-A-Z-A-L or an M-A-Z-E-L?
[00:47:56] Jonah Platt: Great question. I'm an E. E
[00:47:58] Jackie Tohn: L.
[00:47:59] Jonah Platt: [00:48:00] Mazal Tov.
[00:48:00] Jackie Tohn: The Mazal Tov I haven't heard, the first time I heard it was like a few years ago.
[00:48:05] Jonah Platt: What, Mazal Tov? Mazal Tov. As opposed to Mazal Tov? Yes.
[00:48:08] Jackie Tohn: And the spelling is different. Right. Like I've been getting a lot of M A Z A L's. Huh. That's when we talked about it.
[00:48:13] Jackie Tohn: Different strokes? But anyway, yes. Different folks? Sure. Sure.
[00:48:16] Jonah Platt: Um, what do you want to see in season two? Let's start with like, for Esther.
[00:48:21] Jackie Tohn: I would love to meet her family. Okay. Like, where does this woman come from? Is her mother, like, Susie Essman? And like, is her mother That's a fun cameo. It's very. Or like, Fran, or Who is her bet?
[00:48:34] Jackie Tohn: Come on, all the dreams.
[00:48:35] Jonah Platt: Mm
[00:48:35] Jackie Tohn: hmm. I think there's like some family situation that could happen there, but I don't really know. I mean, obviously we're gonna have to explore what goes on with Sasha and Morgan, her husband and Right,
[00:48:46] Jonah Platt: that's sort of like maybe even the biggest
[00:48:49] Jackie Tohn: That's the biggest
[00:48:50] Jonah Platt: cliffhanger of it all.
[00:48:51] Jonah Platt: It's like something's brewing and What is going on over there? And I,
[00:48:54] Jackie Tohn: and Esther is not happy about it. So I imagine season two is gonna be starting, I don't know, [00:49:00] but like, What the F is going on over there.
[00:49:03] Jonah Platt: Yeah.
[00:49:03] Jackie Tohn: Um, and we'll see how that manifests. I also think I just thought of this But like Esther wants to do a podcast
[00:49:13] Jonah Platt: Wait, I can imagine it being Jewish with Esther.
[00:49:15] Jackie Tohn: That's right. Yes full name being Jewish with Esther rock love I live.
[00:49:20] Jonah Platt: There you go. So
[00:49:20] Jackie Tohn: maybe there's something there. I don't know yet. I
[00:49:21] Jonah Platt: like it.
[00:49:22] Jackie Tohn: Okay.
[00:49:22] Jonah Platt: Is there anything, like, from your Jewish life that you're like, Oh, we should do this in season two. Like, we didn't do a Seder. We didn't do a blank. Yeah. Oh, I love that.
[00:49:31] Jonah Platt: I love a Seder.
[00:49:32] Jackie Tohn: Although we did do, um, we did do a makeshift Seder on Glow. We had a campfire episode, a camping episode, where it was, uh, Passover. And Melrose was like, my mother would kill me if I didn't at least, you know, attempt to have a seder. So she takes the hubcaps off her limousine and makes them into seder plates.
[00:49:49] Jonah Platt: Genius. Genius. That's resourceful.
[00:49:51] Jackie Tohn: I mean, this, that show.
[00:49:52] Jonah Platt: It's a little unhygienic.
[00:49:53] Jackie Tohn: I mean, listen. You gotta work with what you got. You gotta wear a little washcloth. Yeah, so I mean, that would be, you know, [00:50:00] That would be cool or like some some version of a Shabbat. Um,
[00:50:03] Jonah Platt: so no Shabbat. I don't know. I don't
[00:50:05] Jackie Tohn: think it was a Shabbat It was like there
[00:50:07] Jonah Platt: was like a dinner party, but there was no Shabbat
[00:50:09] Jackie Tohn: Shabbat.
[00:50:10] Jackie Tohn: Lovely. Love a Shabbat
[00:50:12] Jonah Platt: candle. Oh, they did this Shabbat candles in the restaurant
[00:50:14] Jackie Tohn: at the restaurant I had like oh, that's right. They had their moment, but like well like a family
[00:50:18] Jonah Platt: dinner
[00:50:18] Jackie Tohn: Yeah And the way that like my family's always like you rip the challah and you throw it and it's just like it shows this like joyful familial Again, like, you know, Jewish joy.
[00:50:29] Jonah Platt: Yeah.
[00:50:29] Jackie Tohn: Not
[00:50:30] Jonah Platt: So you guys are challah rippers.
[00:50:32] Jackie Tohn: Oh, we're challah rippers. Yeah, okay. We,
[00:50:33] Jonah Platt: when Skylar Astin was here, we talked about ripping versus slicing. Oh
[00:50:37] Jackie Tohn: no, we're rippers. Full rippers. My family, growing up, we were, um, uh, slicers. And then I went to Israel, and then they were rippers, and then when I came back, I was like, gang?
[00:50:48] Jackie Tohn: Gang. We're rippers.
[00:50:49] Jonah Platt: I love that. I mean, if they're doing it, we gotta be doing it. Authenticity, baby. We're rippers. Yeah, I love that. Um, another project on the horizon for you, surprise, spoiler alert, you're playing a [00:51:00] Jew. None of your business. Uh, is in a movie called Floaters about Jewish sleepaway camp, which we've already established you attended.
[00:51:07] Jackie Tohn: I did. So
[00:51:07] Jonah Platt: now we're bringing it back to the Locanda Lion reference for my intro. Um, we know you went there because my story producer also went there. Um.
[00:51:16] Jackie Tohn: And saw it on the Lakonda Lions Instagram and Facebook that they have blown up that I am an alumni.
[00:51:22] Jonah Platt: I don't know, but that's cool.
[00:51:24] Jackie Tohn: That's definitely how.
[00:51:25] Jackie Tohn: Is that a
[00:51:25] Jonah Platt: nice claim to fame? Like, it's a very prideful moment for you. It's really
[00:51:28] Jackie Tohn: cute. But also to speak to that when we were talking about like how Jewish people are receiving the show. Like. All these people from camp and everyone's just like over the moon. It's just, it's really nice. It feels really good.
[00:51:40] Jonah Platt: So he wanted me to ask you, do the names Ira and Ray ring a bell?
[00:51:46] Jackie Tohn: Ira, I forget. Ira, Ira Seinfeld and Ray Diamond. Ray Diamond was the camp owner and Ira had like tall knee socks and he was the head of, I was going to say boys camp, but he may have been the head of, I think it was [00:52:00] called under camp. Or the youth camp, like, we were the younger ones, and then there was, like, the older, older camp.
[00:52:06] Jackie Tohn: Lower camp! Under camp was giving too much underpants, and it started freaking out immediately. Lower camp. Weird
[00:52:11] Jonah Platt: status thing about under camp.
[00:52:13] Jackie Tohn: Lower camp, and then upper. Yeah, the lowers and the uppers. But anyway, we, Ira, When I was a kid, we would like, he, he led Friday Night Services, big Adon Alam fan, um, Asher Malak with Harem Call, of course.
[00:52:27] Jackie Tohn: Excellent. Ah, thank you. So many tunes, you can sing it to them, you know? So many tunes. Ours, what was yours?
[00:52:33] Jonah Platt: What tune? Like, literally, it was like you could pick any song, almost, and throw it to it.
[00:52:38] Jackie Tohn: Adon Alam. I share my love.
[00:52:51] Jonah Platt: Beautiful. Um, that was really special and
[00:52:54] Jackie Tohn: I went home at the commercial break on American Idol. What the f I can't. Can you imagine?
[00:52:58] Jonah Platt: I can't.
[00:52:59] Jackie Tohn: After that [00:53:00] version of it, I should have done a Don't Alarm on Idol.
[00:53:02] Jonah Platt: Yeah, there you go. I would have gotten eliminated
[00:53:03] Jackie Tohn: much sooner. Duh doonk. Thank you.
[00:53:06] Jonah Platt: Can you finish the lyric, we came to camp as strangers yesterday?
[00:53:11] Jackie Tohn: We came to camp as strangers yesterday, afraid to go away. from everyone we love. So scared. Why do you know it?
[00:53:26] Jonah Platt: I don't. I was just playing along. You like pointed to me. I was like, alright, I'll do it. You're like, I could read your mouth. So scared. I think
[00:53:33] Jackie Tohn: is so scared. That's what we're saying. Of course I can finish the lyric.
[00:53:36] Jackie Tohn: That was
[00:53:38] Jonah Platt: amazing. What is that? I don't even know what that
[00:53:40] Jackie Tohn: is.
[00:53:40] Jonah Platt: He just like told me to ask it.
[00:53:41] Jackie Tohn: It's the greatest thing ever. Um, this is going to get posted on the Wakanda Lions page. Oh my God.
[00:53:47] Jonah Platt: They're going to go crazy.
[00:53:50] Jackie Tohn: That was the, um, that was the camp song, but it was the tune of like either Neil Diamond.
[00:53:56] Jackie Tohn: Oh, they'll kill me now. I'm turning on them. That's that's the, [00:54:00] um. Like, someone wrote a camp song to the tune of, oh, no, that's not Now and Forever, because that was another big camp song. I will always think of you. Is that Carole King?
[00:54:13] Jonah Platt: I don't know. But we sang with Carole King at one of those charity concerts I mentioned in 2019, which was pretty darn cool.
[00:54:18] Jonah Platt: We
[00:54:18] Jackie Tohn: were having like a singing at charity concerts moment together.
[00:54:22] Jonah Platt: Yep.
[00:54:22] Jackie Tohn: That was wild. Yeah. I don't know if I've ever done one since, and we did two in the span of like three weeks. Right. I know. Great.
[00:54:28] Jonah Platt: Well, look at you now.
[00:54:30] Jackie Tohn: Look at you
[00:54:31] Jonah Platt: now. Um, all right. So at some point I was talking about a movie called Floaters.
[00:54:36] Jonah Platt: Oh no. I don't know when that happened. No, no, no. Could have been any
[00:54:38] Jackie Tohn: time.
[00:54:38] Jonah Platt: Um, what, uh, what can you tell us about your character in that and, and making the movie and when it's coming out and all that stuff?
[00:54:44] Jackie Tohn: This was, um, in indie and so when it gets distribution, I will let you know and it'll come out. Okay.
[00:54:51] Jackie Tohn: But until then, it's called The Floaters and it's about my character, Nomi, who wanted to be a rock star. Her band quits, her life's falling apart. She's [00:55:00] 40. She's, like, crying. She calls her best friend who's at the sleepaway camp, who works now at the sleepaway camp they went to as kids. And, uh, she's like, no, we come to camp.
[00:55:08] Jackie Tohn: I'm like, come on, there's no chance I'm coming to camp. Cut to her boots exiting the Uber. And she sort of gets out of her own way and teaches the misfits at the camp. about art and their value and they're the, they're called the floaters because they didn't sign up for any activities. So there's like this group of like ten rag tag, you know, kids and they become like a unit and they put on a show.
[00:55:36] Jonah Platt: That's so cool. She reconnects with herself. Exactly.
[00:55:40] Jackie Tohn: And I, she reconnects with herself, but I also think like as artists we are so eye on the prize. We're so focused on my goals, my goals, I have my goals. And this is like the first time in her life she's like, Oh, not my goals, their goals. And that becomes my goals.
[00:55:55] Jackie Tohn: That's gotta be refreshing. That's cool. That like, I just want these kids to feel good and find their voice and [00:56:00] perform.
[00:56:00] Jonah Platt: I think I auditioned for floaters.
[00:56:02] Jackie Tohn: This makes sense.
[00:56:03] Jonah Platt: I definitely auditioned for Nobody Wants This.
[00:56:05] Jackie Tohn: For the brother? For the
[00:56:06] Jonah Platt: brother. Of course. You know. Okay. So. So, we talked about Sukkot.
[00:56:11] Jonah Platt: Did you know that No, no.
[00:56:12] Jackie Tohn: Probably not.
[00:56:13] Jonah Platt: Okay. So, but when this airs, we're going to be in the middle of Sukkot, going into Shmini
[00:56:19] Jackie Tohn: Yatseret. Ugh! Shmini Yatseret is one of my favorite terms, or I don't even know what it means.
[00:56:24] Jonah Platt: I don't know. As far as I understand, it's basically the last day of Sukkot with like a couple of different ritualistic Choices like there's some prayer.
[00:56:33] Jonah Platt: You don't say like you don't shake the lulav on that day. You pray for rain Sure something, you know, very very tribal Situation and then the day after that is simchat torah. Do we know this one?
[00:56:45] Jackie Tohn: I know all of the terms you've heard them if you asked me out of context If Shmini Yatzirah and Simchat Torah have anything to do with Sukkot, I wouldn't have known.
[00:56:53] Jackie Tohn: But I know them. They're all in there. Also, just sidebar, I have Simming in my right eye for the people watching at [00:57:00] home. If you feel like I have a twitch, that's why. Thank you. Do you want to continue? They
[00:57:03] Jonah Platt: didn't think it Before, now they're just, everyone can just staring at your right eye. Fine, because
[00:57:07] Jackie Tohn: I feel like I've been going like this and it's like, I have, at a certain point you have to say something cause it's like, We'll
[00:57:12] Jonah Platt: CGI a different eye in front of your eye.
[00:57:14] Jonah Platt: Do you ever see um,
[00:57:15] Jackie Tohn: in
[00:57:16] Jonah Platt: Blade? In one of the Blade movies, like Wesley Snipes like wouldn't open his eyes or something, so they like had to CGI eyes on top of his closed eyes. Yeah, you'll see it. It's very funny. The speed
[00:57:26] Jackie Tohn: with which I'm googling this upon our finishing.
[00:57:28] Jonah Platt: Um, so Simchat Torah, Is you celebrate finishing the year of reading through the whole Torah.
[00:57:35] Jonah Platt: It's like you've reached the end and now we're like, so is
[00:57:38] Jackie Tohn: that coincidental that it's by Sukkot or they're connected? I don't
[00:57:43] Jonah Platt: know, honestly. I just know it falls like it's like the day after Sukkot ends.
[00:57:47] Jackie Tohn: Okay. The
[00:57:48] Jonah Platt: Simchat Torah. And to take a darker turn, like October 7th of last year fell on Simcha Torah.
[00:57:56] Jonah Platt: So this is now the first Simcha Torah since. [00:58:00] Right. So, you know, it's gonna be, uh, I think people are gonna try to find the joy in it despite, you know, the Terror. The terror.
[00:58:11] Jackie Tohn: Mm. Mm.
[00:58:12] Jonah Platt: We always like to end with some questions from our Instagram audience. Oh,
[00:58:15] Jackie Tohn: can't wait.
[00:58:16] Jonah Platt: If you want to leave questions for my guest any week, you just got to be at, uh, at being Jewish podcast on Instagram.
[00:58:22] Jonah Platt: We always announce the guest and ask for your fun questions there. Um, so we got a couple of great ones for you. Okay,
[00:58:28] Jackie Tohn: ready?
[00:58:28] Jonah Platt: A Jewish underscore girl asks, are we ever going to get more best leftovers ever? You were an awesome host.
[00:58:35] Jackie Tohn: Thank you, a Jewish underscore girl. Aww. No.
[00:58:40] Jonah Platt: Aw. Is the short answer. Netflix cooking show, by the way.
[00:58:43] Jackie Tohn: Netflix cooking show. Best leftovers ever. Still streaming. The timing of that show was unfortunate. It was
[00:58:48] Jonah Platt: 2020, right? It was like, pandemic.
[00:58:50] Jackie Tohn: And then it was like, it wasn't a big enough, I mean, millions of people, it was wonderful. But like, it wasn't such a juggernaut that they were gonna [00:59:00] like, wait four years to make it again.
[00:59:01] Jackie Tohn: Yeah. And if you think about the nature of leftovers during COVID. Like you're really gonna like a little bit of a gross vibe. Yeah, like you're just taking something and it's just like maybe toss it. Right. But before that it was recycling and eco friendly and look at these leftovers that you had. You can use these different, um, add some ingredients and turn it into high end cuisine and it was, that show was such a joy to make.
[00:59:25] Jackie Tohn: Oh my god.
[00:59:26] Jonah Platt: That's so fun. I've, it's like, I've always wanted to be in a show. just famous enough to get the opportunity to, like, be a guest judge on some sort of cooking show.
[00:59:35] Jackie Tohn: Oh my god, my dream is I want to be a guest judge on RuPaul's Drag Race. That's a little outside
[00:59:40] Jonah Platt: of my wheelhouse, but I love that for you.
[00:59:42] Jonah Platt: It's
[00:59:42] Jackie Tohn: deep. It's my whole wheelhouse. It's the whole house.
[00:59:45] Jonah Platt: I don't know if it's Liah Liah or Leah Leah one, uh, she wants to know, have you ever been to Israel, which you mentioned you have, and if so, what's your favorite place that you visited?
[00:59:54] Jackie Tohn: I went with the Schusterman Foundation. Do you know that organization?
[00:59:56] Jackie Tohn: Did you go on like reality
[00:59:57] Jonah Platt: on a trip? I went reality. Okay.
[00:59:58] Jackie Tohn: It was life [01:00:00] changing. Absolutely life changing. That's
[01:00:02] Jonah Platt: amazing. Nice plug for Shoestrom in there. Oh
[01:00:03] Jackie Tohn: my goodness. I mean, they sent us to Israel. Yes. The least I could do is talk about them. I mean, it was really, really exceptional and life changing. I remember, the food was amazing.
[01:00:16] Jackie Tohn: For
[01:00:16] Jonah Platt: sure. The
[01:00:17] Jackie Tohn: markets were amazing.
[01:00:19] Jonah Platt: I just got back on Friday. Oh my goodness. How was
[01:00:21] Jackie Tohn: it? It
[01:00:22] Jonah Platt: was amazing.
[01:00:23] Jackie Tohn: It was amazing. Where'd you go? It was
[01:00:24] Jonah Platt: very special. Uh, I mean, so, I, actually, in the episode prior to this one, I talk all about, you My time in Israel, I went for the anniversary of October 7th. Right. So I was on the south, I went to, you know, where the Nova site was.
[01:00:36] Jonah Platt: I went to the Kibera team. And then I was in mostly Tel Aviv and a little bit in Jerusalem.
[01:00:40] Jackie Tohn: That's where I went, Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Yeah, I mean those are the big two. And it was so, yeah, it was so exceptional. I was, it was jaw dropping is what it was.
[01:00:48] Jonah Platt: Yeah, it's a special place. Uh, we sort of touched on this, but we'll, we'll get a definitive answer from you.
[01:00:55] Jonah Platt: Olivia. ra13, maybe she's an RA on the 13th [01:01:00] floor, um, do we think Morgan is going to come between Esther and Sasha?
[01:01:05] Jackie Tohn: I mean, yeah.
[01:01:06] Jonah Platt: That's the prediction.
[01:01:07] Jackie Tohn: I think so. And I think even It's good TV. It's good TV, and I think even if they don't end up having like a major affair, it's already come between Right.
[01:01:16] Jackie Tohn: There's already a thing
[01:01:17] Jonah Platt: now.
[01:01:17] Jackie Tohn: Well, yeah, because of the hiding and the lying. And this is, I think, the big thing in relationships, where it's like I mean, I don't know how he would have told her. I don't see that it would have gone especially well. Right. But at least he wouldn't have been hiding.
[01:01:30] Jonah Platt: Right.
[01:01:31] Jonah Platt: That's a tough spot.
[01:01:32] Jackie Tohn: That's a tough spot.
[01:01:33] Jonah Platt: Well, I think the show should be called Everybody Fucking Wants This.
[01:01:37] Jackie Tohn: Everybody fucking wants this. Because I Did you know that it was originally called Schicksa? Yeah, I did know
[01:01:40] Jonah Platt: that.
[01:01:41] Jackie Tohn: I was like, of all the places for us not to discuss that, yes. But
[01:01:44] Jonah Platt: it's, I think it was a good choice to not call it Shiksa.
[01:01:46] Jonah Platt: I was,
[01:01:46] Jackie Tohn: at first I was, um, I just heard Erin on her pod talk about the same thing. Like, at first we were all bummed. We were like, Oh, it's going to be impossible to beat Shiksa. But now that it's Nobody Wants This and everybody loves it, it just feels so right.
[01:01:59] Jonah Platt: [01:02:00] Jackie.
[01:02:00] Jackie Tohn: Jonah.
[01:02:00] Jonah Platt: You are a delight. This has been such a pleasure.
[01:02:03] Jonah Platt: This is so delightful. I would have you on
[01:02:05] Jackie Tohn: every week. My bracelets, I'll tell you, um, She makes all different kinds, but they're by a woman on Instagram, Beads for Proceeds. Nice rhyme. Yeah, she's rad, and she made these amazing bracelets. Was this the
[01:02:18] Jonah Platt: inspiration for Rachel's choker making character?
[01:02:22] Jackie Tohn: Could you imagine?
[01:02:22] Jackie Tohn: Is that the funniest thing? Who
[01:02:24] Jonah Platt: I was in an acting class with, by the way. She's fabulous. Rachel.
[01:02:27] Jackie Tohn: Fabulous. I'm an investor in that company. Yeah. That's right. That's right. Really fun. Anyway, thought I'd shut up my beautiful little bracelets.
[01:02:36] Jonah Platt: Thank you again to my charming guest Jackie Tone for a really meaningful conversation.
[01:02:41] Jonah Platt: And of course, thanks to all of you for listening and sharing and engaging with the podcast. I'm truly grateful. Please, as I said, make sure you're following at being Jewish podcast on Instagram so you can catch all our guest announcements and you can leave us fun questions like the ones we just answered and at being Jewish on Tik Tok so you [01:03:00] never miss a clip.
[01:03:01] Jonah Platt: And for those of you who celebrate, I want to wish you a Chag Sukkot Sameach. Happy Sukkot and Shemini Atzeret and Simchat Torah, if those are your thing. And if you don't celebrate Sukkot, get yourself invited to dinner in a sukkah. It's basically just alfresco dining. It's a great time. You won't regret it.
[01:03:17] Jonah Platt: I will see you all right back here after the holidays for the next stupendous installment of Being Jewish with me, Jonah Platt.
