Being Jewish with Jonah Platt

[00:00:00] Jonah Platt: It starts on the plane. You go to the bathroom and notice a silver cup chained to the sink to be used for the ritual washing of hands. As you disembark, the flight attendant wishes you a gemaratimatova. May you have a good sealing in the Book of Life, a customary greeting before Yom Kippur. Then it's the airport, lined with posters of the hostages still held in Gaza.

[00:00:22] Jonah Platt: None are ripped or defaced, though many bear stickers or handwritten notes of love or sorrow. Then it's the mezuzah, outside every hotel room door, and you think to yourself, I'm home. If you're watching this, you'll notice I'm not in my usual studio. Today is October 9th, 2024, and I am in Israel, the Holy Land, the world's only Jewish state.

[00:00:48] Jonah Platt: I was determined not to let the entire year go by without coming here, so I slid in under the wire to be here for the one year anniversary of October 7th, the worst massacre of Jews in generations. I [00:01:00] have done much in my short time here. I've spoken to soldiers, most of them teenagers, some active, some injured, none downtrodden, all proud.

[00:01:10] Jonah Platt: I've seen hundreds of bombed out cars with smashed windshields, seats and doors riddled with bullet holes, dusty water bottles on the floor, never to be finished by the families or young concertgoers to whom they belonged. I've seen rooms full of confiscated Hamas weapons manufactured by Iran, Russia, and North Korea.

[00:01:31] Jonah Platt: I've attended memorials at Dizengoff Square, Hostage Square, and Kibbutz Kfar Aza, where many of the homes are still in a state of bloody, pockmarked ruin. And the bursts of machine gun fire and explosions can be heard in Gaza just a few kilometers away. I met with a doctor who treated most of the returned hostages, visited the memorial that now stands where the Sderot police headquarters used to be, and even experienced my first rocket red alert, which is basically an [00:02:00] Israeli rite of passage.

[00:02:01] Jonah Platt: But the most impactful time, Well, the hours I spent in Raim, at the site of the Nova Festival, where nearly 400 innocent people were slaughtered like fish in a barrel, in the most unimaginably heinous and terrifying of ways. At the heart of the Nova site, where the main stage once stood, is an ad hoc memorial of sorts.

[00:02:21] Jonah Platt: Row after row after row of posters on plywood sprouting out of the ground like tall flowers with beautiful smiling faces on them, faces of people whose lives were ended somewhere on this dusty ground. Upon seeing these posters, I was struck by the powerful spirit of the humans they represented. These were vivacious, vibrant.

[00:02:46] Jonah Platt: Free spirited, universe loving people. Each one so full of life. People you know you'd fall in love with if you ever got to know them. Young people, mostly, in their 20s and 30s. Their lives cut so short, [00:03:00] tragically, because they went to the wrong concert on the wrong day. If you or your friends or your children have ever been to Coachella or EDC or Burning Man, this would have been you, to think that these young people were mowed down, burned alive, dismembered, disemboweled, gang raped, hung naked from trees with nails and knives shoved inside them.

[00:03:24] Jonah Platt: It's too horrific to fully comprehend. I was also struck by the natural beauty of the place, so incongruous with the horrors that occurred there. It was impossible to look at the fields, the rows of trees, Highway 232 up the hill, and not imagine thousands of people running for their lives. As I walked through the site, I saw a young man I recognized, which was the last thing I expected.

[00:03:49] Jonah Platt: His name is Kvir. I recognized him as one of the featured narrators from the documentary We Will Dance Again, which should be absolutely required viewing for every human being on Earth. Take [00:04:00] it from someone who has been to both the NOVA exhibit and actual NOVA, the movie hits harder. Anyway, of everyone in the film, Cleo is the one I'm most connected to, because even as he recounted the horrors of the nightmarish experience, his smile, his humor, his love of life, his soulful energy continued to shine through him.

[00:04:21] Jonah Platt: And so upon spotting him, I immediately went up to him and told him this. He smiled widely, pulled me into a deep embrace, and said, My brother, I'm so meaningful that of all the people I should run into on this day, in this place, was him. I sat down to chat with Kvir when a friendly older British man sat down next to me.

[00:04:42] Jonah Platt: And he asked why I had come, and I told him, I'm a Jew. I just wanted to be here. He smiled. I said, what about you? He said, my son Jakey was killed here. It's so easy for those of us in the diaspora to forget that for thousands of Israelis, [00:05:00] it's still October 7th. For them, every day is October 7th. How do you have a one year anniversary of something that's still happening to you?

[00:05:10] Jonah Platt: My last conversation there was with a survivor named Loey, who had been at the festival with his wife and friends. He had not returned to the site since he escaped it, 365 days ago. Spurred into immediate action by the thought of his young children at home, Woei was one of the first to get his group to their car and get on the road.

[00:05:29] Jonah Platt: Ignoring Waze's instructions, praying as they went. When all five cars in front of him turned right, he turned left. Only to find himself surrounded by terrorists. As he and his passengers ducked down and recited the Shema, the quintessential prayer of the Jewish people, he kept driving through a hail of bullets, miraculously escaping the death trap.

[00:05:50] Jonah Platt: Focused only on his instinct that he must go forward until he reached his children, he specifically elected not to stop at an army base, or town, or bomb shelter, [00:06:00] as so many doomed others would. He was safely reunited with his family. Well, we lost 54 friends that day. After listening to his story, I again found myself in the deep embrace of someone I had just met.

[00:06:14] Jonah Platt: And he said to me, Ah, Shelly. My brother. All afternoon, people from home were checking in on me. What a hard, exhausting day this must be for you. But truth be told, it wasn't. There was an ease to everything that I couldn't quite explain initially. I'd only slept about four hours in two days, but somehow I felt energized.

[00:06:38] Jonah Platt: Why? I don't know. Because, despite the pain, being in Israel brings relief. Here, no one doubts the evil of barbaric human butchers, or the righteousness of the fight to defeat them. No one falls for terrorist propaganda, or protests my existence, or hides from their Jewish identity. Here, [00:07:00] I can relax out of my defensive stance, take off the emotional and mental armor I have to wear every day as a Jew in the Diaspora.

[00:07:08] Jonah Platt: Here, I can breathe. No wonder I have so much energy. Even with the grief and trauma and the very real threat of violence hovering in the background, there is a feeling of great comfort here. We are in a place that is for us. The only place that is truly for us, where our way of being is the rule, not the exception.

[00:07:31] Jonah Platt: Where everyone, Jewish or not, understands something fundamentally deep inside each other. At home, as we mourn the tragedies of the past year, we do so in private. In houses of worship, in group chats, at the dinner table, in Israel, we all mourn together, unified as one. At home, I try to hold up Israel and the Jewish people however I can.

[00:07:56] Jonah Platt: Here, Israel and the Jewish people hold [00:08:00] me. It is so easy to fall into despair, frustration, helplessness. Why don't people understand? How do they have it so backwards? Why won't they just leave us alone? But honestly, these questions are irrelevant. The world is what it is and asking questions isn't going to change it.

[00:08:19] Jonah Platt: Not when there is work to be done. So instead of despairing, get to work. This is an all hands on deck moment. Whatever lane you're in, whatever corner of this world is yours, throw yourself into it. Stand up for Jews. Stand up for yourself. Stop apologizing for being who you are. Respect yourself so that others respect you in turn.

[00:08:41] Jonah Platt: Lean into your connection to the Jewish people. Don't let a vague fear, or peer pressure, or moral confusion pull you back. We are all in this together. And as long as there's an Israel, there will be an us. And as long as there is us, There will [00:09:00] always be an Israel. This is the fifth episode of Being Jewish with me, Jonah Platt.

[00:09:35] Jonah Platt: My guest today, though, really, I kind of feel like her guest since I'm in her city and her country. I agree. is an extremely respected leader in Israeli society. She is a humanitarian, a successful politician, a mother, a religious Jew, and a fiery media personality. She's also a special envoy to the foreign ministry, which is pretty darn cool.

[00:09:56] Jonah Platt: I'm very excited to be sitting down with her. Welcome, Flora [00:10:00] Hassan Nahum.

[00:10:00] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Thank you, John. Thank you for having me.

[00:10:02] Jonah Platt: Absolutely. Thank you for having me in your Beautiful city and country. Well, I'm so happy that you're here. Me too. Good for you, middle of the war. You know. God on a flight. No time like the present.

[00:10:11] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Oh my lord.

[00:10:12] Jonah Platt: So in many ways, speaking of Israel, you sort of embody the dream of Israel. You are a child of the diaspora who returned to the ancestral homeland. You're raising a family here and contributing so greatly to the community. Have you ever thought of yourself in those terms?

[00:10:28] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: No, because you know what, Jonah, I feel that everybody who's here who, um, immigrated to Israel is kind of here deliberately to do something good, you know, so all of my immigrant friends and I have many.

[00:10:42] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I live in a neighborhood with a lot of mixed couples. I mean, somebody is really married to somebody who immigrated from somewhere and everybody's here. You don't come here because you want a good life and make money. You come here because you feel that you have a sense of mission. Did you have some type of ideology that you want to, you know, [00:11:00] live out here in Israel.

[00:11:02] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And so, yes, I do feel like a contributing member of Israeli society, but I'm amongst many contributing members of Israeli society. It's a place where you learn from a very young age, because I've seen it with my kids education, that you don't just live for you, for yourself. You live for society. So I'll give you an example.

[00:11:19] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Kids can't graduate high school unless they've done 250 volunteer hours.

[00:11:25] Jonah Platt: Whoa.

[00:11:25] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Where do you have that?

[00:11:27] Jonah Platt: That's our school's like.

[00:11:30] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And then you have to go to the army,

[00:11:31] Jonah Platt: right?

[00:11:32] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So you don't live for you. And I think that in this kind of very Egotistical world that we live in is iPhone, I this, I that. That's a good thing for kids.

[00:11:41] Jonah Platt: It's a great thing. I mean, we talk about that in America a lot. Like, we wish there was some sort of mandatory service. Yeah. To, to teach you a sense of community and Exactly. being part of something greater than yourself. It's definitely something I admire about. Israel. So you have a very unique family history and, and background.

[00:11:58] Jonah Platt: You can pick which [00:12:00] generation you want to start at, but like, bring me up to speed. How do we get to Florida?

[00:12:03] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I was, I was brought up in Gibraltar. Gibraltar is a little British protectorate in southern Spain. So it's part of the Iberian Peninsula, which is where my family originally emanate from. Um, but it's British.

[00:12:16] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So I like to compare it so that Americans understand it. We're like the Puerto Rico of the UK. That's

[00:12:22] Jonah Platt: a good comparison. I get it.

[00:12:24] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: We speak Spanish. We have British citizenship when you living in Gibraltar, you can vote for your local leaders, but when you move, you can move to England like the Puerto Ricans can move to America, then there you can vote for the leadership of the UK.

[00:12:41] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So it's very, very similar in status. So I grew up there. I studied law in the UK, because thankfully, when I was growing up, there were no universities there. So we get to leave. We all want to leave because it's very small. It's like a kibbutz in a way.

[00:12:54] Jonah Platt: What's the Jewish community like there?

[00:12:56] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: The Spanish, in their agreement to pass over [00:13:00] Gibraltar to the British, said, you can't have Muslims or Jews living there.

[00:13:05] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Because of course, remember, they'd cleansed the Iberian Peninsula of Jews and Muslims. You know, ironically, Jews and Muslims lived in Spain, in Andalus, which is southern Spain, as peaceful partners under, of course, the Moorish regime at the time. So the British set up a military base because Gibraltar is literally the lookout of the entrance to the Mediterranean.

[00:13:27] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: When you look at it on the map, It's opposite Tangiers, Morocco.

[00:13:30] Jonah Platt: And it's

[00:13:31] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: the Straits of Gibraltar, it's very narrow. And literally, whatever comes into the Mediterranean, you can see through Gibraltar.

[00:13:38] Jonah Platt: Mm hmm.

[00:13:38] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And so it's a very strategic military base for the UK.

[00:13:41] Jonah Platt: Sure.

[00:13:42] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: For Britain. And they opened up this military base, but they needed merchants.

[00:13:46] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: They needed people to bring supplies. Who were the merchants? the Jews. So they call the Jews back into, uh, Gibraltar to come and live in Gibraltar. And so my family that were wandering around after the [00:14:00] inquisition, they ran away. They're wandering around the Iberian Peninsula. They were in Menorca, which is near to Ibiza.

[00:14:06] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: They heard that Gibraltar was opening up to Jews, so they went and moved. So my family have been in Gibraltar for, since the 1700s. Wow. I know, it's crazy. And my mother's side, also Spanish Jews, but they wandered off to northern Morocco, to Tangiers. So at home we spoke Spanish.

[00:14:25] Jonah Platt: So you said your family, you know, escaped from Spain.

[00:14:29] Jonah Platt: Yeah. So you are Sephardic.

[00:14:30] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I'm Sephardic, yeah.

[00:14:31] Jonah Platt: Yep. Um, what are some of your favorite Sephardic customs or quirks that are specific?

[00:14:37] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Um, well that's an interesting, the food I think would be the first thing to talk about. We have great food. It's, it's kind of a combination of Jewish and Mediterranean food and the nexus of that.

[00:14:48] Jonah Platt: I'm interested. Yes.

[00:14:49] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Well, next time you're around for Shabbat, you really have to come to my house because

[00:14:53] Jonah Platt: Sold.

[00:14:54] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Because what happened was I then married another type of Sephardi. My husband's family are Iraqi [00:15:00] Indian Jews.

[00:15:00] Jonah Platt: Whoa. So

[00:15:01] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: the Jews who ran away from Iraq and then wound up in India 200 years ago, because India was actually good to the Jews.

[00:15:09] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And Their food is wild, so in my house, it's a combination of Moroccan, Spanish, Indian, and Iraqi food.

[00:15:16] Jonah Platt: Whoa, that's, I mean, you've created a whole new category.

[00:15:19] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: We really have.

[00:15:20] Jonah Platt: We eat well. That's cool. I'm in. Yeah,

[00:15:23] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: but I love the songs. It's very melodic. It's very interesting. I think a lot of people don't know this, but flamenco, Which is Spanish, I guess, folkloric music, comes from, or part of its roots is from Sephardi Jewish synagogue singing.

[00:15:40] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So there's a lot of, ah, you know, that type of thing, which is

[00:15:43] Jonah Platt: flamenco,

[00:15:44] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: and it actually comes from Jewish singing. Yeah.

[00:15:47] Jonah Platt: Now you know.

[00:15:48] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Yes, exactly. We should do a flamenco show, Jonas. As soon as you sing.

[00:15:52] Jonah Platt: I'll play the guitar. Let's do it. You do the hard stepping.

[00:15:55] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Yes, I'll do that.

[00:15:57] Jonah Platt: Your family is like Gibraltar [00:16:00] political royalty, right?

[00:16:01] Jonah Platt: I mean,

[00:16:01] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Apparently. Your father

[00:16:03] Jonah Platt: was the first mayor, is that right?

[00:16:05] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: The first mayor and the first chief minister, which is like a head of government.

[00:16:09] Jonah Platt: First mayor, I mean, that's pretty cool. I know. So my

[00:16:11] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: father basically led the first civil rights movement in Gibraltar.

[00:16:14] Jonah Platt: Oh my gosh.

[00:16:15] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Not against the British because they understood that they can't be independent.

[00:16:18] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: They need to be under the British, but with more autonomy, with more self government. And so my father's political career was essentially just fighting for more self government for the people of Gibraltar. So they started with the first city council. My father ran, became the first mayor. Then they evolved that into a parliament.

[00:16:36] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: My father ran, became the first chief minister, which is head of government. And he was there, His whole life he really gave to, to that.

[00:16:44] Jonah Platt: You went to London for school. Yeah. What was it like at that time being Jewish in Britain?

[00:16:49] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So it wasn't so bad. I mean, I was in a university with, which actually was kind of a little bit more anti Israel militant, but it was the, it was the, it was still the beginning, the [00:17:00] very beginning, we were still having.

[00:17:02] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: normal discussions about the Israeli Palestinian conflict with Palestinians and with Arabs, where it was civilized, where we were listening to each other's opinions. It was what university should be. Right,

[00:17:14] Jonah Platt: right.

[00:17:15] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Should be.

[00:17:16] Jonah Platt: That's great.

[00:17:16] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: That, so that was the environment. So yeah, there were people who were like heatedly, but then we'd like go for a drink.

[00:17:23] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: That doesn't exist anymore. That doesn't exist anymore. I know. So I went to college then.

[00:17:28] Jonah Platt: When is then? What decade? Then is

[00:17:29] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: 92 to 95.

[00:17:31] Jonah Platt: Okay.

[00:17:32] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And then I continued on to law school, bar school. I'm a barrister. A barrister is just a litigator. That's the difference. But they give you a wig. Still,

[00:17:40] Jonah Platt: you gotta wear the wigs?

[00:17:41] Jonah Platt: Okay.

[00:17:41] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Yes.

[00:17:42] Jonah Platt: Like the white, like powder wig kind of thing? The white powder wig with the

[00:17:46] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: horse hair. Huh. Yeah, so they still wear the wig. Isn't that amazing?

[00:17:50] Jonah Platt: Some traditions never die.

[00:17:51] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Wigs and robes. So, you know, in England, as opposed to America, I was trying to compare things, diaspora communities. In America, and you can, you can tell [00:18:00] me if it's true or not.

[00:18:01] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: When you were raised, right, being Jewish and being American was no contradiction, right?

[00:18:05] Jonah Platt: Right.

[00:18:06] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: In fact, being American meant we're part of this kind of diverse, beautiful, melting pot mosaic, whatever you want to call it, right? Totally. So it's not like that in Europe. In Europe, there's a small, at best a small tension.

[00:18:22] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So it's kind of dual loyalty, very under the radar. You never had that. You do now. Now we

[00:18:30] Jonah Platt: do. I mean, I was just reading an article about the Europeanization of America. It's exactly that. For Jews now.

[00:18:36] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So we always had, we always kind of had a tolerance for under the radar anti Semitism little remarks, little things that people would say.

[00:18:48] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I remember being in a conversation where somebody didn't know I was Jewish.

[00:18:51] Jonah Platt: Uh huh.

[00:18:52] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And, And saying, oh, and the Jews controlled, and then the guy who was sitting next to me was like, you know, Fleur's [00:19:00] Jewish, because he didn't want them to continue where they were going with this. That always existed.

[00:19:05] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:19:06] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: That always exists in Europe. And that didn't, it certainly wasn't mainstream in America. And I think it's certainly

[00:19:11] Jonah Platt: Not in like, you know, the 80s, 90s, 2000s, sort of like a real golden age. I think

[00:19:16] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Jewish culture was very much considered part of Americana in a way, American culture.

[00:19:20] Jonah Platt: Yeah. People just didn't think that much about it.

[00:19:22] Jonah Platt: Yeah. You know, we got our, we got our one shelf in the Walgreens in the holidays for the Hanukkah stuff. Okay. That was good. Yeah. So like we were in the mix. You were

[00:19:30] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: in the

[00:19:31] Jonah Platt: mix. Yeah.

[00:19:31] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And also when you look at TV, which is like a, you know, a measure, I guess, of American culture, a lot of, you know, the way that you see a lot of, uh, black Americans on TV, there was a lot of Jewish characters on TV.

[00:19:43] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: A lot of Jewish shows.

[00:19:44] Jonah Platt: A lot of them, you know, Are meant to really be Jewish, but are not always like talked about as being Jewish. Yes.

[00:19:51] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I mean, look, Seinfeld never made a song and dance about the fact he was Jewish, but he was very obviously a New York Jew in that show.

[00:19:57] Jonah Platt: Here's the story about Seinfeld. The [00:20:00] character of George was based on Larry David, who is Jewish, but they made him Greek because they were like, we can't have another Jew.

[00:20:07] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: There's too many Jews. But he

[00:20:09] Jonah Platt: was just a Jewish guy who just made his name Greek.

[00:20:11] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Yeah. Well, I think New York culturally, there's a lot of people are not Jewish who just. are Jewish culturally almost because they, because New York is a very Jewishy cultural place. It's

[00:20:20] Jonah Platt: the biggest Jewish population outside Israel.

[00:20:23] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, so I think that's interesting that you are now going through exactly that. I

[00:20:29] Jonah Platt: know. Interesting is one word for it. Uh, I could think of a few others. Um, so you moved to Israel in the middle of the second intifada, which I think everybody listening to my show knows what it is, but just in case, you know, it was a period where there was.

[00:20:45] Jonah Platt: terrorist attacks and urban warfare, urban warfare, suicide bombers, cafes, pizza restaurants, whatever. When you, when you got together, are we like, Oh crap, we made a huge mistake. Or was it like, nah, we're here and we're going to

[00:20:57] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: figure it out. I've never felt moving to Israel was a [00:21:00] mistake. It's, I mean, it's crazy because I remember going to a cafe on a Sunday and that same cafe blowing up on a Wednesday and my husband and I would be like, Oh, my God.

[00:21:10] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Or I remember walking with my husband to for like to have breakfast somewhere and go, okay, my husband would go, where do we sit so that in case there's a suicide bomber, we won't be, I don't know, maimed or dead. I mean, who couldn't live like this?

[00:21:23] Jonah Platt: Israelis.

[00:21:25] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Only. Honestly, we have such a high tolerance. But I want to remind your listeners also, Jonah, that the reason that the second intifada happened was because we had the audacity to offer death threats.

[00:21:35] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Arafat, who was the Palestinian leader at the time, a two state solution, 97 percent of the West Bank, Judea, Samaria, the half of Jerusalem and the three quarters of the Old City. How much better could it have gone?

[00:21:50] Jonah Platt: And I know that's a major turning point in not just like the conflict, but an Israeli sort of.

[00:21:56] Jonah Platt: society and politics because it was like, well, even when we make [00:22:00] an amazing offer, they try to blow us up.

[00:22:02] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Well, I think that was the moment when we realized that we grew up, we lost our innocence. We realized it was a delusion. We realized that this was not a territorial conflict. We realized that, hey, we're giving them everything they say they want and they're still not taking it.

[00:22:19] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And instead they want to go out and kill innocent people on the streets of Jerusalem.

[00:22:22] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:22:23] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Maybe that's actually not what they want. And that's when I, I woke up because I was all in favor of the two state solution. I was all in favor of giving Palestinians, and I still am, they should have self determination.

[00:22:34] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: But unfortunately, the leadership doesn't care about self determination. They care about destroying the state of Israel. And that, that was my wake up call.

[00:22:44] Jonah Platt: Hi. Yeah. Let's see.

[00:22:45] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I is the only thing to say.

[00:22:48] Jonah Platt: So, in 2013, you jump into Israeli politics in a big way, joining the Yerushalayim party in hopes of making Jerusalem more pluralistic, more open city.

[00:22:59] Jonah Platt: [00:23:00] What problems did you try to tackle first, and were you successful?

[00:23:04] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So that's a good question. I don't think that the work is never done,

[00:23:07] Jonah Platt: but

[00:23:08] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I think that Jerusalem, you know, it's Um, it is the most diverse city in the country, and we have two of the largest minorities of country living in their largest numbers here.

[00:23:18] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Jews and the Arab population. Um, so for me, a pluralistic city means everybody gets the same opportunities. Everybody has the same rights, but everybody gets the same opportunities, which means better education, better integration into high, great places of work. Um, that's really what I focused on. But, uh, when I spoke about pluralism at the time also, and still there's a tension in Israel always about religion and state.

[00:23:47] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So what, you know, how does Jerusalem keep being an open city and yet keep the integrity and the heritage of its history? What do you do on Shabbat? What do you do? What is open on Shabbat? What [00:24:00] is closed on Shabbat? How do we live with an ultra Orthodox population? How do we become a welcoming place for all populations like LGBTQ?

[00:24:07] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: How do we embrace, uh, Arab society and embrace them into the prosperity of the startup nation? We move the needle. definitely with education of minorities and job opportunities. And I created a number of programs for integration of Arab and ultra Orthodox women in high tech companies, um, advancement of these women in high tech companies, also men creating, uh, you know, more high tech opportunities in East Jerusalem, creating more, um, Arab men and women engineers, uh, by, you know, closing educational gaps in language and that type of thing.

[00:24:43] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So we definitely moved. The job is still not done.

[00:24:46] Jonah Platt: What issues are you most interested in tackling now? Is it the same or have you got a different focus?

[00:24:52] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So when I was appointed, the idea was because I'm also the co founder of a couple of organizations around the Abraham [00:25:00] Accords. One is called the UA Israel Business Council, and the other one is the Gulf Israel Women's Forum.

[00:25:05] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So I took this opportunity to try and see how we were going to open the people to people rapprochement and peace with Saudi Arabia, because it was literally around the corner. the peace of Saudi Arabia. And this is one of the reasons why Hamas picked this moment in time. Of course. There's no doubt. So that was supposed to be my gig.

[00:25:23] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: October the 7th happened and my gig has completely pivoted to advocacy for Israel, explaining the conflict, keeping those relationships in the Gulf and the Arab world, uh, through a very difficult trying times. And I've just, uh, created a new organization called Campus Israel in order to encourage and facilitate, uh, Jewish.

[00:25:45] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: and non Jewish students from all around the world to come and study in English in Israel. Study, you know, you know, just imbue yourself in the innovation, culture, and academic institutions here. How cool. And bring more foreign students to Israel.

[00:25:59] Jonah Platt: That's [00:26:00] amazing. Yeah. When, when is it launching for students or when do you hope to launch it?

[00:26:03] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: 2025. So we, this winter we hope to have our portal ready where you can just type in college in Israel and look at all the opportunities and as an added cherry on the top. It's way, way cheaper to study here than in American universities.

[00:26:19] Jonah Platt: Alright, well parents and high schoolers, I hope you were taking notes on that part.

[00:26:23] Jonah Platt: You have said previously that Jerusalem is not the core of the problem, but the laboratory to the solution. What is the problem, and why is Jerusalem the key to that solution?

[00:26:34] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So the main, um, issues, if we put politics aside for a second, the main issues that we have in this country are socioeconomic, especially with these two minorities, with the Arab minority and with the ultra Orthodox minority.

[00:26:46] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: When it comes to the ultra Orthodox minority, the men are working in really low numbers because their, their politicians, their leaders have kind of pushed them into this life of Torah learning, which is great, but

[00:26:58] Jonah Platt: it came from that [00:27:00] direction. You think the politicians pushing them towards as opposed to them.

[00:27:03] Jonah Platt: Well,

[00:27:05] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: nowhere in the world. I mean, you live in L. A. You have spent time in New York. What are the New York creditors doing? They're working. They're working. Yeah, they're working. Just go to what's called B& H.

[00:27:15] Jonah Platt: That's right. Electronics.

[00:27:19] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: They're working that diamond district. They're working.

[00:27:21] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:27:22] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Right. Why is it that in Israel the ultra Orthodox are not working?

[00:27:25] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And it was something which was Israeli policy, the Ben Gurion agreed with the religious Haredi leadership at the time, at a time after the Holocaust, when it was important for the Jewish people to rebuild the centers of Torah scholarship. We were talking then about five, ten years. Right. They're 15 percent of the country now.

[00:27:48] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: The country can't afford this.

[00:27:49] Jonah Platt: Right.

[00:27:49] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: But where do we see it? Right in our faces in Jerusalem because they're 30 percent of the population. And so we need to, we need to really deal with the situation here and that model we create for [00:28:00] integration, economic integration. is a model that's going to save the country.

[00:28:04] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Same with the Arabs. The educational system of the Arabs, particularly in Jerusalem, is very, very hostile to Israel, but they also don't teach Hebrew. So they can't integrate even when they want to. So again, we're doing alternative learning programs, immersive language programs. So on a socioeconomic level, the laboratory of all those models for integration and economic development and opportunity for these two minority groups that live in the poorest numbers in this country.

[00:28:32] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: We're, we're developing those models here. What's working here will work everywhere. From a kind of more macro level, Jews and Arabs live here in Jerusalem. We are. building bridges all the time. In October 7th, Yair Sinwar's dream was that the Arabs of Jerusalem would turn against the Jews, and they didn't.

[00:28:51] Jonah Platt: They're not

[00:28:52] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Zionists, but they've learned, we've learned to live together. There's radical elements. We've got to get rid of them. But for the most part, people just want to make a living, [00:29:00] have a nice time, walk in the park, go to Zumba class, go home, go out for dinner. And if you walk around Jerusalem, Jonah, you have now for a couple of days.

[00:29:10] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: What do you see on the streets?

[00:29:11] Jonah Platt: It's a, it's a whole mix of everybody. Mix, mix of everyone. I mean, I was walking today by the, like, employment office. Yes. And noticing the line of people was just, you know, Arab, Jew, Haredi, Exactly. Secular, man, woman, just everybody.

[00:29:25] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Exactly.

[00:29:26] Jonah Platt: That's Jerusalem. Something I've observed is that there's often a very different connection to being Jewish for Israelis Yeah.

[00:29:33] Jonah Platt: and Diaspora Jews because in Israel you can sort of take being Jewish for granted a little bit. And, uh, in the States, if you want to be Jewish, you have to really be Jewish.

[00:29:43] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: You have to be part of a community in the States.

[00:29:45] Jonah Platt: Yes. And not even, you just, you have to really think about. You know, observing or, or connecting or whatever.

[00:29:52] Jonah Platt: Yeah. Um, what, what are some other differences perhaps that you've noticed between Israelis and Diaspora Jews?

[00:29:59] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Well, I [00:30:00] don't think Israelis know what antisemitism is.

[00:30:02] Jonah Platt: Mm.

[00:30:02] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: They don't know it.

[00:30:04] Jonah Platt: Wow.

[00:30:04] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: They can't capture it. They can't grasp it. Why? Because they've been raised in a country where they're a majority.

[00:30:10] Jonah Platt: That's so interesting.

[00:30:11] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: We've suffered lots of things in Israel, but not anti Semitism. I mean, terrorist attacks may have anti Semitic roots. They may not want us here because we're Jewish. All of that, yes, but not the same way you've experienced it. And I find that incredible. And I think that October the 7th was a wake up call for diaspora Jewry.

[00:30:30] Jonah Platt: It

[00:30:30] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: was a wake up call for Israelis as well, because they didn't realize the anti Semitism that exists around the world. They think, oh, the Holocaust, that was it. That was the end of it. We got our own country. It's over. Oh, the Jews and the diaspora live great lives. That was a wake up call for them as well.

[00:30:47] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So I think that's, I see it in my kids. My kids were born here.

[00:30:50] Jonah Platt: They don't

[00:30:50] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: really understand antisemitism.

[00:30:51] Jonah Platt: Wow.

[00:30:52] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: You know, and so that's I think another difference. But I think that generally the Jew here is not, um, [00:31:00] seeking validation from anyone.

[00:31:03] Jonah Platt: They don't have to. We're here. Yeah.

[00:31:04] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Get used to it. Yeah, I mean, that's it.

[00:31:07] Jonah Platt: I mean, that's that's what what you just said is sort of how I feel about the term Zionist because, you know, Zionism implies some dream of an Israeli homeland. It's like it's already here.

[00:31:18] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Yeah.

[00:31:18] Jonah Platt: So I don't know why we have to keep framing ourselves.

[00:31:21] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: It was a political movement. Exactly. It was a political movement that that was successful and it completed its task.

[00:31:29] Jonah Platt: Exactly. So it would be like if Americans still called themselves like colonial rebels. Yes. It's like, nah, we're, it's just Americans now.

[00:31:34] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Yes. That's a really good point. Um, but you know what we're like, we just like to then evolve the term. So you have the post Zionists and you have the, what is the new Zionism?

[00:31:46] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And let's reinvent Zionism. And, you know, people talk about Tikkun Olam as a kind of Zionism. It's not Zionism. It's just Jewish values.

[00:31:55] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:31:55] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: We've always had it.

[00:31:56] Jonah Platt: That's, that's another reason I think to retire the term and [00:32:00] it's too many different things and especially when it's been now

[00:32:02] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: taken by the haters and branded with such a bad, you know,

[00:32:06] Jonah Platt: just a substitute for dirty Jew.

[00:32:09] Jonah Platt: Yeah. Oh, it really is. Yeah.

[00:32:11] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: It totally is.

[00:32:12] Jonah Platt: What is something you think diaspora Jews don't understand about Israelis?

[00:32:16] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I think that just what I said earlier, I think they, they don't understand that we're not all equal. We're not trying to, um, ingratiate ourselves with anyone here. We just are. We don't think about it.

[00:32:28] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: We don't apologize for it. I still find the diaspora, there's still an element of love me, love me by the Jews, you know, like bending over backwards in everybody's cause, in every social justice movement to just show that we're good people. Here we don't, we don't have to show anybody. We just saw.

[00:32:49] Jonah Platt: Well, that's, that's a little cynical.

[00:32:51] Jonah Platt: I feel like a lot of that is, at least in the social justice world, is, is authentic and it's part of that tikkun olam. It's

[00:32:57] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: totally authentic. It's totally [00:33:00] authentic and it does come from a good place of tikkun olam. But I think that October 7th people realized,

[00:33:07] Jonah Platt: Just because I showed up for these people doesn't mean they're showing up for me.

[00:33:09] Jonah Platt: Yeah, exactly.

[00:33:11] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And then maybe analyzing, well, why was I showing up at everything? The way I see it is this. The Jewish people are a family, okay?

[00:33:18] Jonah Platt: Yep.

[00:33:19] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Families are dysfunctional, right? Yes. You come from quite a few siblings.

[00:33:23] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:33:24] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: You fight with them, you grow up fighting with them, and that's how it is, right?

[00:33:27] Jonah Platt: Yes.

[00:33:27] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And the way I see it is, that's totally normal.

[00:33:29] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:33:30] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: The Jewish people are a family. We fight, we disagree. But when you're out of the house, what did your mother tell you? You don't fight with your sibling when there's other people around when you're out of the house. You certainly don't side with anybody else against your sibling in in the schoolyard, would you?

[00:33:44] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Right,

[00:33:44] Jonah Platt: right. Of course not.

[00:33:45] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So I say this to young people all the time. Yes, you could be really angry at your sibling. You could be really angry at your uncle. He could be doing something that embarrasses you. He could be doing something that makes you angry. But when you're out there. And the world is [00:34:00] against you.

[00:34:00] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Or when you're out in that playground, and there's other kids, and there's bullies. Where do you stand? And so why aren't you standing for your people and your family? And that really bothers me.

[00:34:11] Jonah Platt: It bothers a lot of us. And Israelis

[00:34:13] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: don't, don't see that.

[00:34:14] Jonah Platt: Right. It's, it's that need to be liked. Yes. And accepted.

[00:34:18] Jonah Platt: Yes. At the cost of your own family. I'm

[00:34:21] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: more enlightened if I'm with you who hate me. Right. Because somehow, if I'm still in my tribe, in my family, that's primitive. That's like saying that standing with your brother, even though you disagree with him, but I'm going to stand with my brother That's primitive because somehow it's ingrained that some higher ideological cause is more important than family.

[00:34:44] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: No, it ain't, nothing is.

[00:34:47] Jonah Platt: So I'd be remiss if I didn't discuss the current war a little bit with you. You've already spoken about how you sort of, what your role has been in this time. You've also said when it comes to the communications war, [00:35:00] we aren't even in the arena.

[00:35:01] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: No.

[00:35:02] Jonah Platt: How do we fix that? I mean, and that's something you hear in the diaspora a lot, like, What are they doing?

[00:35:07] Jonah Platt: Where is the PR campaign? What's, what's happening here?

[00:35:09] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Israel's never thought about this.

[00:35:11] Jonah Platt: I mean, I guess that speaks to what you've been saying. They just, they just do what they do.

[00:35:14] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Well, yes, I guess it is. I didn't think about it that way. So that's a good point, Jonah. But I think that every country, especially a country that is so vilified, should have a comms strategy.

[00:35:26] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Sure. It's like ABC. Exactly. Um, Gulf states have a comms strategy. I know somebody who works for the Emirates. He told me his com strategy. So everybody has a com strategy. Everybody has a branding and somehow Israel is not in the arena. And I think that comes We know what I was telling you about Israeli, like, we don't care, we are who we are.

[00:35:50] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: There's an, to me, there's an element of arrogance in that.

[00:35:52] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:35:53] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: That I criticize a lot. Mm

[00:35:54] Jonah Platt: hmm.

[00:35:55] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I do it internally, but I do criticize it a lot. You know, no, you can't [00:36:00] say, there is a part of a lot of people here who say they hear this anyway. Why bother? I don't. I don't agree with that. I think, come on, you got to get into the fight.

[00:36:10] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: You got to put people straight. They're just lying. It's libels and slander. When people libel and slander you, what do you do? You either fight back or you sue them. That's what we need to do. And instead of being on defense, let's go on offense. Why are we always on defense?

[00:36:25] Jonah Platt: Always just reacting. Always reacting.

[00:36:27] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Always putting out fires. Always saying, no, no, no, no, no, we didn't do this. I think that's a big mistake. Like I was telling you that I pivoted. Well, I didn't pivot deliberately. I was dragged in on October 7th at 10 in the morning. And like you said, I'm an observant Jew. I normally wouldn't be on my phone.

[00:36:44] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: When I realized we're at war, I switched on the TV to see what was happening. And then my phone rang and it was the BBC. Now, why is the BBC calling the deputy mayor of Jerusalem? They called me because they obviously called four other people before me, including the government press office, [00:37:00] including the prime minister's office, including the IDF spokesperson, and nobody answered.

[00:37:03] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I was the first one to answer. And that's why I've been doing what I've been doing. But what I wish is that the government took it seriously. And instead of spending money on one more war plane, which yes, is necessary to beat the terrorist enemies. But take that money, just one, and put it in a decent, get the best people around the world.

[00:37:24] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: You know what I say, Jonah? People say we control the media. Well, let's control the media. They're accusing us of it already. We're nowhere near even controlling the narrative.

[00:37:34] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:37:35] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Nevermind the media.

[00:37:36] Jonah Platt: That's right. I mean, you know how government works, obviously. Like what, how to create any kind of change in this arena?

[00:37:44] Jonah Platt: This

[00:37:44] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: is why I am masochistically still consider myself a politician, still want to continue running for office because I'm not, you know, I'm not, I'm not gonna, I'm not an expert in national security. I'm not an expert on welfare. I'm not an expert on transport. [00:38:00] But what I think I have some expertise in is the communications war.

[00:38:04] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And so I would love to be that. in the Israeli government. And that's still why I'm still in it, because I still feel that I have something meaningful to contribute to my country and my people.

[00:38:14] Jonah Platt: Well, we got to make this happen for you. I mean, we need you.

[00:38:17] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I wish people in the diaspora could actually vote.

[00:38:19] Jonah Platt: How do you feel about Israel's current trajectory in regards to Gaza, Lebanon, the West Bank and Iran? I know that's four different things.

[00:38:28] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Yeah, unfortunately, and I say unfortunately, because it means the war might last a little longer. We need to win. We can't not win. If we don't win, first of all, it, we're just allowing the cancer to remain at a low grade and then continue to grow.

[00:38:44] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: A. B. We're sending a message to the terrorists around the world that we, who represent the free world here, are not really gonna get rid of you. And we don't have the stomach for it. That's not a good [00:39:00] message for the, I think, internal terrorism that America and Europe and the West is going to face because the Islamists, jihadi Islamism has gotten everywhere.

[00:39:11] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: It's in your college campuses. It's in Europe.

[00:39:14] Jonah Platt: It's in the streets of New York.

[00:39:15] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: It's only a matter of time before. Look, you guys had it in 9 11. People have such short memories. What do they think 9 11 was about?

[00:39:23] Jonah Platt: Well, I guess it's the people who weren't alive for 9 11, or who were babies. The ones that think that

[00:39:29] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Osama Bin Laden is somebody to revere.

[00:39:31] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Right. It's so sad. It's almost funny. It's so funny. It's almost sad. I don't even know what to, how to look at this anymore.

[00:39:37] Jonah Platt: I know.

[00:39:38] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: World turned upside down.

[00:39:39] Jonah Platt: What would you like to see happen next? Um, and, and what is your most desired outcome at the end of this? Like, what does that look like?

[00:39:47] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: The first thing is to bring the hostages home.

[00:39:49] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: The, the alive and the dead ones. It's just not, you're a parent, Jonah.

[00:39:53] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:39:54] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: It's just, how can you live? How can any of us [00:40:00] think of our child in there?

[00:40:02] Jonah Platt: Yeah.

[00:40:03] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: You know, being tortured, girls being raped. We need to get them home. Not even, forget the families for a second, but for the soul of this country, we cannot leave any man or woman behind.

[00:40:16] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And so we need to get them home. That's the first thing we need to do, whatever it takes. So that's the first thing I want to see. The second thing I want to see is a decisive victory. And I know we're losing boys, our boys, beautiful boys and girls every day in the war, in the army. And I, we need to dismantle Hamas.

[00:40:32] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: We need to maybe, I mean, ideally for me, because I've been very involved with Abraham Accord stuff, the ideal situation in Gaza would be if we could manage to convince some of the Gulf countries to come and administer them. They have the money and they have. the ability to reconstruct quickly. I mean, if you've been to the Gulf,

[00:40:48] Jonah Platt: many

[00:40:50] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Manhattan's in like 10 years.

[00:40:53] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: It's crazy.

[00:40:54] Jonah Platt: Have you gotten any indication with your relationships that that's something they have an appetite for?

[00:40:59] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: If [00:41:00] America were to create a package by which, uh, the, the Saudis want a defense pact with America. That's what they want. Why do they want it? Because they understand Iran is their major threat, the Islamic Republic of Iran.

[00:41:12] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: If we created a package where the, it would be a win win for the Gulf, for the Saudis and the Gulf States. I think it could happen. And I think, to be honest, the Gazans would be thrilled. If they created a Dubai over there for them, do you imagine? Um, the other thing that we need to do, and I know I, you know, I did an article, I was interviewed for an article in uh, Newsweek a couple of weeks ago, and I was called a warmonger, but we really need to get rid of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

[00:41:36] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Because as long as you don't, they're just going to continue with their proxy strategy, and they're just, they're just, their tentacles are getting bigger. They've now got six, seven countries. They're going to continue. They've got their hands in Africa. They're going to go everywhere.

[00:41:50] Jonah Platt: Yeah, there's not, there's no indication at all that they are getting ready to throw the towel in.

[00:41:54] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: They're not going to throw the towel in. And let me tell you, the people who really want us to do this are the Iranians. [00:42:00] 80 percent of the country hate their regime. They've raped and killed and murdered women in captivity for showing a strand of hair. How these idiots and morons in college campuses can be like shouting, you know, let's, uh, you know, Hezbollah, we stand with Hamas.

[00:42:17] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Don't they realize what the life would be?

[00:42:20] Jonah Platt: I don't think they even realize what they're saying. No, I don't. A lot of them have no idea what those things are. It's just a

[00:42:25] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: trendy slogan, isn't

[00:42:26] Jonah Platt: it?

[00:42:27] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So anyway. So we need to, I know we need a strong America and you know, unfortunately, the Obama doctrine which continues till today of appeasement is, has not worked.

[00:42:39] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: They've gotten worse, their monster's gotten bigger, it has not worked, it will not work, and America has to take its role as the leading superpower that it is. Because it's gonna, the way that it got to America 9 11. It's going to come back to America. We're just the first front of this war. We're not the [00:43:00] last to the Islamic jihadists.

[00:43:02] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: We're not.

[00:43:02] Jonah Platt: That's for sure.

[00:43:03] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Yeah.

[00:43:04] Jonah Platt: What are some mistakes that you've seen along the way that you wish had been avoided?

[00:43:09] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Well, I think that procrastinating and maybe worrying about what the world think of us. Maybe it was a mistake. At the same time, hand in hand with that is, we need to be a lot more efficient in helping shape the narrative that the world thinks of us.

[00:43:24] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So if we would have a better narrative, maybe we would have more decisive actions and not be so worried about

[00:43:31] Jonah Platt: You'd have more capital to be able to do what you need to do.

[00:43:34] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Exactly. That's exactly. It's

[00:43:35] Jonah Platt: politics.

[00:43:36] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: It's politics. We need to have had more capital. We didn't because it wasn't considered seriously.

[00:43:40] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And I've always said, you know, we're fighting many fronts, but another front that we're fighting is a communications war. Um, and I think for the first time, Jonah, the communications war has affected our military war and that's why we need to get our act together. And that's new. Interesting. That's new.

[00:43:56] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Yeah.

[00:43:57] Jonah Platt: How do you feel when you hear folks? [00:44:00] Both inside Israel and outside calling for a ceasefire.

[00:44:03] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Look, we all want the war to end and a ceasefire could happen tomorrow. Tomorrow. It's very simple. Don't pressure Israel for a ceasefire. Pressure the terrorists to dismantle and to return the hostages and then you have a ceasefire.

[00:44:17] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Pressure Israel. Lebanon, Hezbollah, to go back north of the Litani River and to comply with Resolution 1701. If they did that, it would be over. So yes, we all want a ceasefire, but we need the terrorist entities to actually do what they're supposed to do. And then they get a ceasefire. But a ceasefire has to come with a guarantee that this is not going to happen again in three years and have my 15 year old son today be fighting in that war because we didn't finish the job.

[00:44:49] Jonah Platt: Do you feel hopeful for the future of the Jewish people?

[00:44:52] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Always. And I'll tell you why. We're resilient people.

[00:44:56] Jonah Platt: That's for sure.

[00:44:57] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: We've been around for thousands [00:45:00] of years. We are walking dinosaurs. We've been around with the Assyrians and the Babylonians and the Romans. Where the hell are they today? Gone.

[00:45:08] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: They're gone, but we're still here, which means we are an eternal people and we will win. The question is what price are we going to pay? That's the question is always what price? At what price are we going to be able to continue to survive and then thrive? And we will. I just. Pray that the price is not too high.

[00:45:28] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: It's already been too high.

[00:45:30] Jonah Platt: Yeah. Speaking of the future, a little lighter turn, uh, the holiday of Sukkot is going to start right after this airs.

[00:45:38] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Yes.

[00:45:38] Jonah Platt: How will you be celebrating Sukkot?

[00:45:40] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Again, we make wonderful food. We have people over, we drink, we eat. Um, and we, we, listen, last year Sukkot was, we were living under this illusion that we were going to have a fantastic year.

[00:45:54] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: We had the worst year. In the history of the state of Israel, I think in our [00:46:00] generation's, uh, history of the Jewish people. And, uh, it was Simchat Torah last year when this all happened. So I pray that we find the light and the joy. We continue always as Jewish people. Jewish people are very good at, um, commemorating the tragedy alongside celebration and appreciation of life.

[00:46:23] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And we have to keep doing that.

[00:46:24] Jonah Platt: That's beautiful. It's like half the holidays. Yeah. Right there. All right. So to wrap it up, I'm going to do a little lightning round. Some, some quick questions I'm going to throw at you. What is your favorite book about Jerusalem?

[00:46:37] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Jerusalem by Simon Sebag Montefiore. If you want the book, The masterclass on the entire history, the 3, 000 plus years of Jerusalem.

[00:46:48] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: It's long.

[00:46:49] Jonah Platt: Yeah, it's gotta be.

[00:46:50] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: It's long, but he's, he's fantastic.

[00:46:52] Jonah Platt: Okay, awesome. What do you eat for breakfast?

[00:46:56] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I've broken away from family tradition. Because we always [00:47:00] used to, my mother always used to, first of all, you're going to like this, my father, who was not a drinker, the first thing he would do, would come to the house after, um, after synagogue, after the fast, is take a shot of whiskey.

[00:47:11] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Because he would say that warms up and gets the body started. Yeah, I like

[00:47:13] Jonah Platt: that. I might try that this year. Try it.

[00:47:15] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: It's like, it puts you in a different place. Um, so normally my mother would make chicken soup because she always felt that soup was good for your body after you've been fasting. But I think we've been Ashkenazified and, uh, now we do more milky stuff,

[00:47:29] Jonah Platt: bagels, lox, bagels,

[00:47:30] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: lox, sweets, lasagna.

[00:47:33] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So yeah, I mean, I love. the diversity of the Jewish people. So I take from everyone.

[00:47:38] Jonah Platt: As we should. As we all should. I wish we did it more.

[00:47:41] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Yeah.

[00:47:41] Jonah Platt: What is your favorite can't miss non touristy Jerusalem experience?

[00:47:47] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Ooh, non touristy. Everything's become so touristy at the moment.

[00:47:51] Jonah Platt: Yeah, I want like the insider tip of like, when you're in Jerusalem, you gotta do blank.

[00:47:55] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: There is a museum, which I think is less known. But it is a [00:48:00] gem and it's called the Tower of David Museum. And basically the museum tells the story just in its construction. It tells the story of Jerusalem because every meter of this incredible fortress, it's a fortress, is like a century of history.

[00:48:16] Jonah Platt: Okay.

[00:48:16] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: So Tower of David Museum.

[00:48:18] Jonah Platt: That'll be top of my list next time I'm in town.

[00:48:20] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I'll take you myself.

[00:48:22] Jonah Platt: Deal. Uh, who is one of your biggest Jewish role models?

[00:48:26] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: You know, a lot of people talk about the fathers of Zionism. Nobody talks about the mothers of Zionism.

[00:48:32] Jonah Platt: Talk about them.

[00:48:32] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: But the mothers of Zionism, um, actually created Israel's, the beginning of Israel's health and social welfare system.

[00:48:41] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Those women were the. The mothers of Zionism when the men were doing like the building up the defense systems of Israel and going and being diplomats around the world trying to lobby and advocate for a state of Israel, they were looking around going, Damn, people are dying. Why don't we open baby clinics?

[00:48:59] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Why don't [00:49:00] we open nutrition clinics? Why don't we create the first hospital?

[00:49:05] Jonah Platt: Wow. I

[00:49:05] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: like those women.

[00:49:06] Jonah Platt: That's great. Yeah. Do you have a favorite Jewish holiday?

[00:49:09] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Oh God. Um, I do love Purim.

[00:49:12] Jonah Platt: Yeah. It's a good time. Because it's fun. Yeah. Good

[00:49:15] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: time. My husband's favorite. He's just a grown man looking for an excuse to dress up as a Star Wars character.

[00:49:19] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: I love it. So he's, you know, he, that's his favorite, but I, I, you know, I've broken away from Star Wars because how many years can you be Princess Leia in a row? So now I'm, I'm, I'm trying to break out of that. When the Game of Thrones was on, I was, uh, I was Khaleesi, which I really

[00:49:35] Jonah Platt: liked. Oh, nice. Daenerys Targaryen.

[00:49:38] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Daenerys Targaryen. Love her.

[00:49:39] Jonah Platt: Couple more. Who's your favorite child? Of my children? I can't tell you that. I'm kidding. Okay, last but certainly not least. What is one final thought that you would like to impart to my mostly non Israeli audience?

[00:49:55] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: You know, just be proud. We are part of such an [00:50:00] incredible tribe.

[00:50:02] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And we're not perfect. We can be really annoying. And, you know, I'm the biggest, you know, I, I can talk a lot about what annoys me about the Jewish people, but ultimately, we are people who have stood the test of time. Everywhere we go, we're like fertilizer, we produce, we develop, we make the surroundings better, not just for us, but for everyone else.

[00:50:28] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: And it's because we're rooted in the values of giving. We have a blueprint called the Torah, which teach us how to be less selfish, that teach us how to live in community and live for others. And that is something only to be proud of.

[00:50:45] Jonah Platt: Flora, thank you so much. This was so fantastic.

[00:50:47] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: God bless you, Jonah.

[00:50:48] Fluer Hassan-Nahoum: Thanks for being here. Really.

[00:50:49] Jonah Platt: Thank you.