Being Jewish with Jonah Platt

BJJP_Dana Bash_YouTube Final
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Jonah Platt: [00:00:00] Are people always surprised to find out you're Jewish?

Dana Bash: The Republican party is now the Trump

Jonah Platt: party. Did you guys come off set and you were like, holy shit. Yeah. That's crazy.

Dana Bash: Yeah.

Jonah Platt: You're gonna make me cry. My guest today, and I have never met in person before, but we've been admirers of each other's work from afar since October 7th.

As one of America's leading TV news anchors, she is tasked with the vital job of holding our most important public leaders accountable on our behalf, all while balancing the need for occupational neutrality while still honoring her own identity. She has been celebrated for her steadfast and outspoken support of the Jewish community and also publicly harassed for it.

Though she continues to represent us proudly and undeterred. She's a bestselling author, the grandchild of Holocaust survivors, and famously called the First Trump Biden Debate, a shit show on live tv. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the stalwart Dana Bash.

Dana Bash: Hi Jonah.

Jonah Platt: Hi Dana. Thank you so much for being here.

Dana Bash: It's so great to be here. As I said to you, one of the many reasons I adore you is your [00:01:00] name, 'cause my son's name is Jonah. I have one son and he's Jonah. So he's, uh, you had me a Jonah

Jonah Platt: that's very kind. He's a, he's a sweetheart. No, we just FaceTimed before. Yeah. I wanna start by asking you this, you have a very public job.

You're blonde. Are people always surprised to find out you're Jewish?

Dana Bash: They are,

Jonah Platt: right?

Dana Bash: Yeah. They're, they've gotten that

Jonah Platt: before too. And yeah. I'm, I'm not nearly as public as you are

Dana Bash: now. My maiden name is Schwartz.

Jonah Platt: That's a dead giveaway.

Dana Bash: That would've been a giveaway.

Jonah Platt: So, before we jump into all things, Dana, uh, I want to get your take on something more topical.

Dana Bash: Okay.

Jonah Platt: The Hamas Israel War has resumed. How inevitable do you feel like that resumption was and what's your read on the situation?

Dana Bash: Maybe I'm naive. I don't necessarily think it was inevitable,

Jonah Platt: really.

Dana Bash: Remember I preface that by saying maybe I am naive. Mm-hmm. Which I shouldn't be at this point. I mean, nobody should be.

But there is and was such a determination to get to phase two of these, uh, negotiations, um, by, [00:02:00] certainly by the Trump administration. I. Genuinely think by Israel, uh, and I guess less so by Hamas. Um, you know, we don't, we won't litigate here the reasons for the resumption in, um, in the war. It's just as somebody who has, as I'm sure you have as well spent time with the families of the hostages including, and especially those who are still there.

Yeah. The Alexander family.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: I mean, I just saw them. The night of the president's address to Congress, uh, they were in the capitol with their representative 'cause they are from, and they live in, in, uh, 10 to fly New Jersey with Josh Gottheimer. And there was so much hope mm-hmm. That we were gonna get to phase two soon.

And then there was that, I don't know if you remember, there was this brief report that came out that Hamas said, okay, we're going to release. AAN Alexander. Right. And also some of the hostages who were [00:03:00] killed, and then it just all went poof.

Jonah Platt: I feel it was inevitable. Mm-hmm. They were gonna resume. I just, I don't think, um, the Israeli government had the appetite for phase two of mm-hmm.

You know, we're gonna basically allow Hamas to. Continue on and leave before the, the jig is up, so, yeah, I know, I know. Look, it's, it's disappointing.

Dana Bash: It's, it's, it's tough. Yeah. It's

Jonah Platt: very tough. Okay, so now let's talk about you. Your mom was a Jewish educator, is that right? Yes.

Dana Bash: Yeah. And she still is.

Jonah Platt: I mean, amazing.

It's like, hello, but,

Dana Bash: but, you know, but No, but you know what's really interesting about that? What she always wanted to do was adult Jewish education, because. She always said, and she's right, that particularly I grew up reform.

Jonah Platt: Mm-hmm.

Dana Bash: That for reformed Jews, the adults on Sunday mornings and on Tuesday or Wednesday nights, they drop the kid off and then they pick them up and then that's it.

Well, why not use that time for adult education for the parents, most of whom ended their Jewish [00:04:00] education at age 13?

Jonah Platt: Right. So

Dana Bash: that's why she got into

Jonah Platt: it. I love that. Mm-hmm. That's all we need more of that. We do. We've talked about that on the show before. I know. Yeah. Sarah Herwitz on,

Dana Bash: by the way. I love Sarah Herwig.

She's

Jonah Platt: amazing. She's amazing. She's

Dana Bash: terrific.

Jonah Platt: Obviously your parents were impactful in your life in the path that you, very much so you've gone down. What do you admire most about them?

Dana Bash: That's such a good question. Yeah, it's a hard one and you're gonna make me cry 'cause I just love them so much. What I admire most about them is that they're just so normal and.

As I've gotten older and made my way in the world, I've realized more and more how normal they are because most people are not by normal, I mean down to earth, straight shooters. Uh, they believe that most people in the world are good. They do things the way that you're supposed to do them.

Jonah Platt: It's my wife's number one compliment is when she describes someone as normal.

Is that right? Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, weekly shout out to Courtney.

Dana Bash: Courtney, I'm totally with you. And. But there [00:05:00] were times in my adult life where I actually think that hurt me because you wouldn't think this because of the business that I am, but maybe I was too trusting, like, oh, that person is a malignant narcissist.

Right? Like, which I, I, I didn't even understand totally unfamiliar concept of that because I was totally unfamiliar with it. They are all about our family. That has come back to them because our fam, my family is very close, and I realize, again, as I get older, how rare that is.

Jonah Platt: So your mother's parents, mm-hmm.

Were Holocaust survivors. Mm-hmm. How big of an influence did that have on your Jewish upbringing? The

Dana Bash: biggest.

Jonah Platt: The biggest.

Dana Bash: Did you, you guys were here, your family was here pre Holocaust, right? Yes. My family came

Jonah Platt: over right at the turn of the 20th century. Right.

Dana Bash: So, but I know that you've talked to enough people to know that there were sort of two kinds of experiences.

One is the experience where you have somebody in your family who experienced World War II in Europe, the [00:06:00] Holocaust, and they never talk about it.

Jonah Platt: Mm-hmm.

Dana Bash: And then you have the experience. Which is my experience of they don't stop talking about it. Wow. Which I feel lucky that I had the latter experience.

My grandmother was Hungarian, my grandfather was Austrian, so he had to leave Austria. Around Krisna. Yeah. Which was like, you know, probably four years before they actually left Europe, three years before they left Europe, he didn't have papers. He was hiding, he was making his way. He told me all these incredible stories about the quote unquote gypsies, helping him, uh, navigate the mountains so that he could get over to, uh, find my grandmother in Hungary.

And he hid there with my grandmother's family. Because Hungary was fine until 1944

Jonah Platt: mm.

Dana Bash: Until it wasn't.

Jonah Platt: Right.

Dana Bash: My grandfather's brother, my great uncle Charles, was already in the United States. As soon as he saw things sort of rumbling in in Vienna, [00:07:00] he was like, I'm out. Wow. He was a chemist. My great-grandfather had paint factories.

Mm-hmm. In Vienna. They were, again, typical Western European Jews. Were considered themselves good. Austrians. Yeah, were assimilated. They were, you know, Jewish but had Jewish identities, but very much integrated. They lived right on the Rassa, and then when things started to change, you know, again, my right uncle was like, mm-hmm I'm out.

Good eye. So he, yeah, and he took his talents as a chemist to Chicago. Started working for a company run by a Jewish guy. And, uh, the guy just absolutely adored my great uncle. And so it got to the point where the other members of my grandfather's family who were already here, they were kind of tapped out on getting people over.

Mm-hmm. My great grandparents on my grandfather's side got over and others. And so the boss of [00:08:00] this, um, it was called American Decal, that was the company in Chicago, said, okay, I'll sign the affidavit. For your brother and sister-in-law, my grandparents, which was a huge deal back then because it was a lot of money.

Mm-hmm. I think it was like 20, $25,000 each, which

Jonah Platt: 1940s

Dana Bash: money.

Jonah Platt: That's

Dana Bash: huge. Yeah. Huge. And which was a big part of the subplot that, you know, we can get to, which is you could get here, but you had to pay for it. Yeah. And the, the whole FDR administration, Congress, the State Department, they were determined not to let the Jews in.

Yeah. They made it very hard. Right before Pearl Harbor.

Jonah Platt: Mm-hmm.

Dana Bash: When Hitler knew that there was a lot of pressure on the US to get into World War II and didn't want that, of course.

Jonah Platt: Right.

Dana Bash: And there was a very narrow window where they thought that perhaps helping to accelerate the Jewish visas, the Jews who had the American visas to leave might help [00:09:00] somehow because of this.

The Nazi party allowed my Jewish grandparents to fly across Europe in the fall of 1941. Wow. To get to Spain, and then they got on a ship and they arrived. They saw the Statue of Liberty, Columbus Day, 19 41, 2 months before Pearl Harbor, and then nothing would've happened. Wow. Meanwhile, my great grandparents, my grandmother's parents and sister, they stayed in Hungary.

They're like, we're fine. We have a treaty with Hitler. Nothing's gonna happen to us. Fast forward to 1944 when Hitler just blew through that treaty like you did to all the others. And, um, they were rounded up and taken Auschwitz and killed immediately.

Jonah Platt: Mm-hmm.

Dana Bash: And my grandmother found out that her immediate family was all dead.

Uh, just a, a couple of, I think it was days after my mother was born in 1945. She was born September of 1945, and that was the point where they finally got a letter. [00:10:00] Her parents had written and had finally arrived in the US effectively saying, you

Jonah Platt: know,

Dana Bash: we're, we're, we're outta here. Hey. Yeah.

Jonah Platt: How was that all imparted to you?

Dana Bash: I remember the bedtime stories where my grandfather would tell us about what their lives were like before, what their lives turned into. He was so proud of his story. He, yeah. Actually. Wrote his autobiography, which I have.

Jonah Platt: Oh, cool. And my

Dana Bash: father actually, you know, kind of cleaned it up and self-published it, which is really, really special to have.

Jonah Platt: That's amazing.

Dana Bash: And he took us to, in 1996, we, my brother, my parents, and I, and my aunt went with my grandfather on what he called a sentimental journey. We went to Vienna, we went to Hungary, we went to Eslava where my grandparents met. Wow. And the whole time, Jonah, the entire time, what stuck with me is what he wanted to stick with me, which is for so long.

[00:11:00] It's not that they wanted to annihilate us, they wanted us to go away.

Jonah Platt: Right.

Dana Bash: And no one would take us.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: And no one would take us. Mm-hmm. I mean, I just explained how hard it was to get to the us. There was no Israel. Um, some of his cousins were very active early on in getting, uh, refugees to Israel and became sort of early members of the modern Israeli government and, and those who helped set it up, but that was the most important thing that he told us.

Jonah Platt: Yeah. Before October 7th. Mm-hmm. How did you try to uphold your family's legacy in, in the way that you move about the world?

Dana Bash: I have always had a strong. Jewish identity, but I think like so many Jews, it, it changed after October. Right. I know you talk about it a lot on this, on this, uh, on this show I see your, your Jewish Star.

Mm-hmm. That that was something that you started to wear proudly. You're not alone, obviously in that, which is a good [00:12:00] thing because I've done work at CNN on, um, an antisemitism and Yeah. One of the most important things is to not hide it. Yeah.

Jonah Platt: Is

Dana Bash: to be loud and proud. Totally. And to normalize. Mm-hmm. The fact that we're Jewish, because back to the word I guess, of this podcast, it is normal.

Exactly. Yeah.

Jonah Platt: You know,

Dana Bash: just remember going to Friday Night Services as a kid, lighting the candles that we're really indelible parts of my memory, but I was also a very. Assimilated kid in America. And I had a lot of friends who were Jewish. I had a lot of friends who weren't Jewish. I did go to Jewish camp Oh nice.

Which is the ball game. Yeah. Camp Harlem. Camp. What Camp? Harlem. It's H-A-R-L-A-M. Ah. Named for Joseph and Betty Haram. It's in the Poconos in Kunkletown, Pennsylvania. And I went to Jewish camp because my mother went to Jewish camp in Wisconsin and. She's like, [00:13:00] it changed my life. It'll change your life.

You're going. And I said, okay, my brother okay. And she was right. Then I sent my, my son, Jonah, to the same camp that my brother and I went to. Amazing. Changed his life. And I've seen you talk about this Jonah, about um, uh, what did you say? Go full Jew?

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: Where it's like, okay. To just. Sing the songs. Yeah.

And do the things, and you have all of the people around you doing the same thing.

Jonah Platt: Mm-hmm.

Dana Bash: So much of what I learned, all the music, uh, the, the traditions, I mean a lot of, I learned at home. But a lot of it was also at camp. Did you go to camp?

Jonah Platt: I did, yeah. Okay. And, and my mom went, so I went to the same camp that my mom went to.

Really? To, and all my cousins and siblings, we all went together every summer. I, I

Dana Bash: didn't think that the

Jonah Platt: West coast, there's a Camp Ramma. Oh, okay. It's a big national Sure. Camp. And there's one in Ojai, California, like 80 minutes north of Los Angeles. Amazing. Yeah.

Dana Bash: Yeah. No camp. But

Jonah Platt: I, I didn't [00:14:00] appreciate the.

Immersion aspect of it until, mm-hmm. I was older, sort of looking back on it, realizing, wow, that's like the only time in my life where I was from, you know, dawn to dusk in a Jewish majority.

Dana Bash: It's just, it's the best, it's the absolute best. I will say that I, I don't talk about this very much, but I'm Dana Bash.

My, uh, first husband is, his name is Jeremy Bash. Mm-hmm. We're friends and he's the best guy in the world. Great. He grew up. Conserv Uhhuh. So his father is a conservative rabbi, but they were s Schumer, Shabbat, his mother's family was all Mo, modern Orthodox, pretty much. His father's family was modern Orthodox too.

And so that combination, I mean, I kind of sometimes joke that it was a form of a mixed marriage because I had to learn so much. I didn't know. I mean,

Jonah Platt: yeah,

Dana Bash: again, like Passover, all the holidays, but as you said, [00:15:00] whether it was the long kiddish or the short kiddish, right. The beer cot hamma zone, which is the prayer you say after, um, after you eat.

I knew it, thank goodness, because of camp, but I just remember you're probably too young. Do you remember what a Sony Walkman was? Of course. Okay. Yeah. So I remember him, Jeremy. Sang the entire ha probably from memory.

Jonah Platt: Whoa.

Dana Bash: From start to finish as they do it in their house, which was, the Seder was hours and hours long.

Oh my

Jonah Platt: God. All in Hebrew.

Dana Bash: It was largely in Hebrew.

Jonah Platt: Wow.

Dana Bash: And I used to jog with my Walkman to. Him singing the ha to me so that I would like, you know, get prepared for it as I got ready for it. And so that experience, and I didn't grow up kosher.

Jonah Platt: Mm-hmm.

Dana Bash: I had a kosher home with him, and I still have a kosher kitchen.

Now I will say that if I bring somebody who's really from into my house, [00:16:00] I, they would not consider it super glot. Yeah. But that's one thing that I've kept up. I've tried to keep it up. But I do it for me, and it's just something that is like a daily, regular reminder of, of who I am. Yeah. And I love it.

Jonah Platt: That's amazing. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about your career. So you have been with CNN your whole career, which literally, which is amazing,

Dana Bash: or bananas or both. I mean, to be in

Jonah Platt: any industry, to be with one business the entire time, it's as rare these days. It is. I'm curious, like how did you first break in?

Internships

Dana Bash: were not paid.

Jonah Platt: Right.

Dana Bash: So my second semester of my senior year, I said. I think I'd like to get paid for something that I do. So. Sure. I called CNN Cold called whoa to see if they needed any freelancers. And I, you know, talk about is everything is, is timing. I got the guy who hired freelancers on the phone the day that he just got an earful from somebody because they couldn't take a vacation 'cause there was no one to fill in for them 'cause they didn't have anybody to [00:17:00] do that job.

And it was the feeds room, which is like coming in and pressing play and record on it. VHS, which again, look it up if you're listeners and don't understand what A VHS is.

Jonah Platt: So it's a more mature crowd here, I think. Okay. All good. Most people are familiar. All right,

Dana Bash: good. And um, and I came in and I learned it, and I started freelancing, and then when I graduated, a tape library position opened up again, something that doesn't exist anymore.

There's no video tape, so there's no library. Mm-hmm. It's all digital. I got it. So I got my first job at CNN on my 22nd birthday. Wow. And I've been at CNN ever since,

Jonah Platt: from the tape library to America's living rooms. Yeah.

Dana Bash: Well, that's pretty

Jonah Platt: amazing. Yeah.

Dana Bash: So that's my story.

Jonah Platt: Did you always aspire to be an anchor?

No. No. Not at all.

Dana Bash: No. I didn't even know if I wanted to be an on camera correspondent. I, I started out after the tape library working as a associate producer and a producer on. Programs. Mm-hmm. On our weekend, public affairs shows, which weirdly, I am a [00:18:00] co-anchor of one of the versions of those shows that I started on now, all these years later.

Jonah Platt: Cool.

Dana Bash: I liked it. I mean, I got great experience. I worked with top-notch anchors, understanding how questions are asked. 'cause it's all about, they were the interview shows.

Jonah Platt: Mm-hmm. And

Dana Bash: then I just decided that I wanted to try news gathering, so I took a lateral move. I went to the assignment desk. And I worked there and helped again, worked with reporters, worked with producers, started going out in the field and then the Clinton impeachment trial happened.

Mm-hmm. And was all hands on deck. And I went up to Capitol Hill during that trial and just to help out. And I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. This is cool. This is cool. Because like you get to run around and talk to senators, talk to house members, talk to their staff, and really you have a primary interaction and experience with the news as it is happening.

[00:19:00] So I loved it. And I started to report on News Break News and they were like, oh, you wanna try doing it on camera? And I said no, because I really, I knew enough at that point to know. Starting at that level was really dangerous. And I was right. 'cause I was really awful. My first live shot in my life was the White House lawn.

Jonah Platt: That's cool. No,

Dana Bash: it was cool, but it was terrifying and it was terrible. Yeah. You weren't, weren't ready for it. All the teas. Yeah. No. But then, you know, they stuck with me. I stuck with it and. I went back to Capitol Hill, which was my first love and covered Congress and campaigns, and

Jonah Platt: we've covered a lot of election stuff.

Dana Bash: A lot. Mostly that's what I do.

Jonah Platt: That's kind of your thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um, even your recent bestselling book is about an election, not a recent one, actually. One from 1872.

Dana Bash: Mm-hmm.

Jonah Platt: What the hell made you write a book about an 1872 Louisiana election.

Dana Bash: I mean, doesn't everybody wanna write about an 1872? I mean, [00:20:00] the election of 1872 in Louisiana was a gubernatorial election.

It was so messed up. Genuinely messed up. Not like fake, messed up, right,

Jonah Platt: right.

Dana Bash: There was no clear winner because the voting was, it was right after the Civil War, and the whites in the south realized that by that point, that. The best way to hold onto power is to rig an election,

Jonah Platt: right,

Dana Bash: and to suppress the black vote.

And so, uh, totally messed up. Nobody would concede for a while there were two governors, two slates of legislatures, two judges, like sets of judges. It was a complete mess. And when the problems. I just described in Louisiana also happened in several other southern states to the point where when the electors, um, and the sort of slates of, of of votes got [00:21:00] to Congress to certify the election, they couldn't do it from these four states.

They had to throw the. The votes out.

Jonah Platt: Wow.

Dana Bash: And then it came up. They came up with a deal and it was literally a backroom deal that allowed President Rutherford Hayes to be elected. And then what ended up happening, long story short, is part of that deal was they pulled the troops out of the south and said, you're on your own.

The federal government is no longer involved in elections. Which allowed for Jim Crow

Jonah Platt: mm-hmm.

Dana Bash: To take effect for a hundred years Wow. In the south. And so, because it's, you know, obviously politically relevant, it was about politics, it was about elections and we wanted to do it before the 2024 election, not knowing what was going to happen.

And, uh, it was really interesting to learn about that.

Jonah Platt: You've moderated a number of debates. Mm-hmm. Which is really cool. Can you think of [00:22:00] a proudest

Dana Bash: presidential debate moment? June, 2024 debate was an interesting moment. I wouldn't say it was necessarily proudest even. I mean, I'm proud of the way we handled the debate.

Mm-hmm. It was not what we expected. It obviously was one of the most monumental, if not the most monumental since Kennedy Nixon in terms of changing the course of the election.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: That had nothing to do with us. Right. That was just about the candidates or the candidate. What was the president? Was

Jonah Platt: that in in real time watching, you know, president Biden falter in that way?

Dana Bash: It was stunning. It was stunning because what you do, of course, before the debate, particularly something as high stakes as this is, we have an amazing team. We practice, we go through, we do mock debates with a fine tooth comb every. Scenario of what could happen, so that we're not surprised. We were surprised.

Jonah Platt: Yeah. Wow. [00:23:00]

Dana Bash: We were definitely surprised. And so there was a lot of, I mean luckily we're in, we do live TV a lot.

Jonah Platt: Sure. So you know how to roll with punches. There was, there

Dana Bash: was some rolling with the punches, but uh, it was definitely not. What we expected in the least.

Jonah Platt: I mean, did you guys come off set and you were like, holy shit, that was crazy.

Yeah.

Dana Bash: Yeah. I mean, we kind of did it on set, right? Like I've obviously since watched some of it, and I do think it was much more pronounced for people at home because we were in, there was no audience, right? So we were in a studio and we were not like in their faces, but we were obviously pulled back and we had the whole.

Stage

Jonah Platt: right camera puts you right in something and the

Dana Bash: camera puts you and, and not only does the camera put you in somebody's face, it was the side by side.

Jonah Platt: Right.

Dana Bash: So you have Trump sort of looking to his left where Biden was and Biden, instead of looking at us, which we were to his [00:24:00] right. Or at Trump also to his right.

Oftentimes was looking to his left. And there was no, there was nobody and nothing there.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: Which I think made the experience for the viewers even more intense than for the two of us sitting there. Jake Tapper and I,

Jonah Platt: monumental for sure. Yeah. I do want to get into some October 7th stuff.

Dana Bash: Mm-hmm.

Jonah Platt: Where were you when you found out what was going on and how quickly did you get from wherever that was into covering it Live on television.

Dana Bash: I was home. I woke up on Saturday morning. I looked at my phone. I. I think like so many people at first, you know, it obviously took a second more than a second to really absorb that this isn't just, oh shoot, something bad's happening in Israel.

Jonah Platt: Right.

Dana Bash: That this is different. Nothing, yeah. Happening in Israel.

And so I got up, I got dressed, I ran into the office and everybody was already the CNN [00:25:00] teams globally. We were already scrambling to figure out what's what, and at some point they put me in the anchor chair and I was anchoring for a few hours during the day. It was surreal. I mean, it was, it's honestly kind of a blur to me.

Mm-hmm. At some point I should go back and watch it, but yeah, it was, it just getting the information, real time for everybody was astonishing. Trying to help make sense of it on the air and make sure we had the right people and the right information, and the right framing and the right perspective was the most important

Jonah Platt: thing.

Can you like let us behind the curtain a little bit and try to explain to us what it's like, you know, covering a breaking news event? Mm-hmm. Like what is going on that we're not seeing? What's in your ear lot? What's the process lot?

Dana Bash: Most of the time you'll go into the show if it's really. Breaking news and it's rolling coverage.

[00:26:00] Usually there are minimal scripts because things are changing on the fly, and you have your laptop, you have your information, you're texting your sources, and you're seeing what your colleagues are reporting in real time. So you're gathering

Jonah Platt: your own news as you're, I try

Dana Bash: to,

Jonah Platt: mm-hmm.

Dana Bash: It's not always easy when you're also anchoring.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: Then they'll say, okay, we have this person available. We have that person available, and just. You just kind of have to go and go with your gut about what to ask, because in those moments it's truly who, what, where, when, why. I mean, it's the basics, right? About knowing the facts, which were coming in fast and furious.

And of course I have an amazing team and one of my producers came in just to help give me. Background and information on whomever I was gonna talk to next quickly. But it's, uh, you roll with it. And what I have learned over the years is transparency with the audience. Mm-hmm. That sometimes the satellite's gonna go [00:27:00] down.

Sometimes I'm gonna go to somebody and I think it's person X, but it's person Y and you just say, you know, sorry, everybody, it's live television. You see what's happening as I do. And I, I think that gives a little bit of grace.

Jonah Platt: Yeah. Uh, for sure.

Dana Bash: And people get it.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: People get that stuff's happening fast.

Jonah Platt: Mm-hmm.

Dana Bash: And having a strong producer in your ear is the ball game. What

Jonah Platt: is it that they're doing to guide you?

Dana Bash: They're seeing things that we can't see. Mm-hmm. First and foremost, they know who's coming up and who's available because they're just, even from a CNN reporter point of view, they know that Nick Robertson just landed in the Tel Aviv airport and that.

He is trying to, he's like basically undercover on the tarmac of Arian trying to get information about what's going on, and he can call in. Well, so I didn't know that Nick Robertson had just landed, right? Things like that, [00:28:00] you have to have a level of trust that this is something that you can do on the air and you just go to it.

And again, sometimes. Nick Robertson wasn't there because he had to turn his phone off because there was incoming or whatever was happening. And then the whole news organization is set up in such a way that there's a process through which the people in the control room and the people who are writing online, they know when something is ready for air, are ready for publishing.

And it's days like that where those processes are really. Like they just, we just kick into high gear.

Jonah Platt: Yeah. How challenging is it to balance your responsibilities as a Jewish woman, as a reporter, all at once?

Dana Bash: This isn't just a company line.

Jonah Platt: Yeah,

Dana Bash: and I know, 'cause I've been at C Nnn for more than 30 years.

We are one of the last bastions. I truly believe this in my heart of hearts as a broadcast network, a television network [00:29:00] that. Where our goal truly is, objective journalism truly is.

Jonah Platt: So how does it feel to, I mean, I don't know how much you feel this, but you know, that's not the perception from Yeah. It sucks the public and that's, I must be shitty if you're, you know, you're in there.

It is really working towards that. Yeah. People are just writing it off.

Dana Bash: Part of the issue is that. Particularly when Fox News came on the scene, I, I, I started at CNN before Fox existed. Mm-hmm. Before M-S-N-B-C existed, but particularly at Fox. Look, the reason why Fox was created and why Roger Ailes wanted a Fox News, Robert Murdoch wanted a Fox News is because they believed that people who go into journalism are, by definition lefties.

Right. And they wanted a place where there was. Uh, kind of like the conservative radio of television. Right. And it worked, you know, and there was an [00:30:00] appetite for that. But that is truly a conservative media outlet, right? And now it's MAGA and MAGA slash conservative. And it all kind of blends together in, in many ways now.

And like, that's okay. They're unabashed about it. They're, they're very upfront about it. M-S-N-B-C at night. Particularly, they're very upfront about who they are. Yeah. And what they wanna be. I think because of the contrast, there are lots of reasons why we're not perceived as, as middle of the road right now.

We're kind of back to where we should be. Um, but particularly with the beginning of the Trump years, it was such a sort of shock to the system, the system of journalism to I. Be in a position where you had a president who was not telling the truth.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: And when they were not telling the truth and doing so on live [00:31:00] TV to have to come out and correct him or to tell your viewers, this isn't, this isn't right.

Or that's a lie. Which I mean, the notion of me using the L word about a president pre 10 years ago, like I couldn't even imagine that that is something that I would ever do.

Jonah Platt: Right. So

Dana Bash: by being prot truth and Pro Facts, we were perceived as being anti-Trump and anti-Republican. Right. And that's the current state of things.

Jonah Platt: How confident are you when you're sitting down to, to speak

Dana Bash: mm-hmm.

Jonah Platt: That the information you've been given is authentic and bulletproof?

Dana Bash: Really good question. You, you can never be a hundred percent competent. I mean, it depends on kind of the flavor of the information. Somebody is saying something to you like, if you, Jonah Platt said to me today the sky is blue and I go on television and say, according to Jonah Platt, the sky is blue.

[00:32:00] Like, that's pretty safe. It's, it's on the record. Yeah. If you as a podcast host tell me that the sky is blue and I go on television and say, according to a podcast host, the sky is blue, then. I'm on less firm ground, but I bet so I better be even more sure. Now I'm, if somebody tells me something that is incorrect, even if they do it on the record, I'm not gonna use it if I know it's incorrect.

Jonah Platt: Right.

Dana Bash: Point being, especially when you have sources who don't wanna use their names. It's important if you can, to get more than one source Right. To corroborate. Also, as much as we can give context to why we're getting that information, to kind of explain to the viewers. Maybe not who it's coming from, but where it's coming from and why, but we get burned.

Yeah. And the most important thing, and the difference between those of us who are still in the business of [00:33:00] trying to get it right and striving for accuracy and objective journalism is when we don't get it right, we own up to it so that there's transparency.

Jonah Platt: Mm-hmm.

Dana Bash: I mean, there is a reason why in every newspaper in America, there's a corrections page.

Jonah Platt: I feel like the, the Israel Gaza War in particular has been really difficult

Dana Bash: Yeah.

Jonah Platt: To get right a lot of the time. Mm-hmm. Because

Dana Bash: it's an information war as much as, maybe even more. I'm not, I'm not belittling the fact that, right. It's a war. War of course, and people are dying, but the war for information is huge.

Jonah Platt: I feel like it's been especially tough because. People who you, or at least as a society that we typically think of as being reliable, are not necessarily in this case like the UN or NGOs or the Red Cross or whatever it might be. How have you, you know, and, and your team tried to deal with [00:34:00] that? And you know, specifically I'll ask the way that the Hamas data is often reported.

Not necessarily by you, but in general in the media at sort of at face value with no qualification. Um, how do you handle that?

Dana Bash: It's challenge. The information that is coming from Gaza is coming from, largely coming from, um, sort of the Hamas, the, the Palestinian Foreign Ministry. We, what we say is the Palestinian Foreign Ministry, which is controlled by Hamas.

In order to, again, that's the transparency thing. Yeah. I think that's the most important thing because most Western journalists are not on the ground. It's very difficult to get there and to report on it, uh, with the sort of primary sources, but it's, I mean, there's no other way to say it is that it's really hard.

Jonah,

Jonah Platt: what has it meant in this time to have Jewish colleagues [00:35:00] like Jake Tapper and Wolf blitzer around you during this. Difficult 18 plus months, period.

Dana Bash: You know what? It's so funny, I never, I never thought about it before October 7th.

Jonah Platt: Right, right. I don't think that's funny. I feel like that's a lot of people would have that similar experience in whatever their job was.

Dana Bash: I think it's not that different than, as you said, with any profession that you're in, any social setting that you're in, any educational setting that you're in, there is a comfort no matter who you are. With, um, finding your people mm-hmm. No matter what your religious back background, ethnic background, um, as much as we're hoping to be integrated and, and it's, it's fascinating and important to know people from different, um, walks of life.

There is something about knowing that other people get who you are and where you come from and, and, and maybe what's going on in your, [00:36:00] in your heart.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: Not through the. Prism of news at all, just like as a human being and as a colleague.

Jonah Platt: Totally. It makes perfect sense. Yeah. In 2022, well before October 7th, you did a special at CNN called Rising Hate Antisemitism in America.

What did you learn about Jew hate in America? Wow. Putting that show together and how, if at all, is what you saw then Different than what we're seeing now.

Dana Bash: When I did that special, it was. Because we were seeing

Jonah Platt: huge rise in, huge

Dana Bash: rise in antisemitism, as you said, well before October 7th, 2023. And most of the egregious Jew hate was coming from the hard, right?

Yeah. The extreme right. It was the Tree of Life shooting. It was Poway in California. Here in California.

Jonah Platt: Mm-hmm. Colleyville.

Dana Bash: Colleyville. Exactly. And. Those [00:37:00] were radicalized people on the hard, right? Mm-hmm. Who were learning about Jew hate and, and Nazi propaganda online and through other sources. And I made a point of saying at the time, I don't want to just do it from the right, even though that's where the actual violence is coming from back then, there is something bubbling in a pretty big way on the.

Far left that's happening in college campuses and I don't wanna lose sight of that. And so we, we found, and we talked to a college student from one of the SUNY schools who was, and now this is gonna be as familiar as anything right now. Yeah. But at the time, I was really blown away to hear that she was a proud progressive.

She was a survivor of sexual assault, helped start [00:38:00] a survivor of sexual assault group on campus, and she was kicked out of the group that she founded because she posted online that she supports Israel, and this I think happened maybe 20 21, 20 22, and she felt so unsafe. At school after that that she ended up coming home.

Jonah Platt: Wow.

Dana Bash: And the school administration said, we're not getting involved in politics. Politics. She told the story of obviously what ended up being so widespread, so vast, and it absolutely exploded with the alliances all shifting before our eyes, the political alliances, particularly for Jews shifting before our eyes in a way that was.

Really monumental after October 7th, but it was already there because the notion of these Jewish students who were, again, so proudly progressive, [00:39:00] being shunned by their fellow progressives, being told that you can't support Israel because their occupiers, they're colonizers, the apartheid, all of the right tropes.

Now, what we did at the time was we talked to, uh. Jonathan, um, Greenblatt with adl. Mm-hmm. He was part of that documentary and the way he described at the time, I will never forget, which is antisemitism on the right. It's like climate change, anti-Semitism on the right is like the tsunami's hitting you, the hurricane's hitting you.

The pick your natural disaster. Right. That's hitting you. 'cause it was so aggressive and violent. Antisemitism on the left is like, you know that the climate is changing. It's just that. You don't feel the effects of it yet.

Jonah Platt: Right.

Dana Bash: And then October 7th happened, I was lucky that I was allowed to and able to do a second hour right after October 7th, before October 7th.

And that first [00:40:00] hour, it took like six months to do it, to really line up all the stories and get people afterwards. It took a week, not even because there was just a, a wealth of stories, a flood of stories in, in. Horrible way.

Jonah Platt: Right. In the press coverage for that special. You talked about how your son mm-hmm.

Was wearing a, a Jewish star necklace of the pride in his identity. Mm-hmm. How has that pride changed, if at all, for, for you and your family since October 7th?

Dana Bash: This is gonna sound like a cop out of an answer, Jonah, but I've genuinely always been a proud Jew, and I think that is because of not just my mom and my dad.

My grandfather.

Jonah Platt: Sure.

Dana Bash: And And a proud American Jew.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: One of my big takeaways from my grandfather was how much he loved being an American. Mm-hmm. And you hear that from immigrants from all walks of life. Totally from all countries, but particularly somebody who fled Hitler.

Jonah Platt: Right. [00:41:00]

Dana Bash: He loved being an American.

He loved the 4th of July. Loved it, loved it, loved it. And this is still the greatest country in the world.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: But I do often wonder what he would be thinking about now. History is nowhere near repeating itself. I don't even think it's rhyming yet.

Jonah Platt: Really?

Dana Bash: Not yet. I don't, because I think we have to be clear-eyed about it.

Jonah Platt: Mm-hmm.

Dana Bash: But I do think about him living this comfortable life in a very comfortable. Society where he was so knowledgeable about the arts and books and culture and things that have nothing to do with Judaism, and all of a sudden being told you're a Jew. You don't get to do any of that here because you're a Jew.

And that's all that matters. To see some of the, the Jew hate the, the [00:42:00] absolute Jew hate on the streets of this country. He loved. You know, it just breaks my heart to think about it. And I do feel an obligation as a Jew, not as a journalist, but as a Jew and as a daughter of people who escaped so that they could survive procreate.

But that so the Jewish people could survive

Jonah Platt: a responsibility to do what?

Dana Bash: Keep the flame going. You know, one of my favorite sayings in Judaism is Ledor Vador. Because it's all we have.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: I mean, if we didn't have from generation to generation, then we wouldn't exist. And to keep that going is, is such a responsibility.

But it's also something that I find so valuable and I'm so, I feel so lucky to be born Jewish, to have this part of my life and this, this part of my identity of who I am at [00:43:00] to continue that as. A member of the Jewish community, and again, as a, as a Jewish parent, it's just, it's so special to me. It's

Jonah Platt: beautiful.

Looking around today, how do you feel about the state of the Democratic party?

Dana Bash: Well, I will tell you from just from a reporter's perspective about how the American people think of the Democratic Party, and that is CNN just had a poll this past week that it's got an all time low approval. Mm-hmm. Like 20%.

Jonah Platt: Wow.

Dana Bash: It's not great.

Jonah Platt: And is that something like within the news world that like you're all aware of and talking about Oh yeah. Or like, this is wild, what's going on here? Yeah. And you know who

Dana Bash: else is aware of it? The democratic leaders. Are they and elected? Oh yeah. There's a huge soul searching going on right now among elected officials, both in Washington, governors around the country, legislators, county officials, I mean, everybody trying to figure out.

What went [00:44:00] wrong. And when I say what went wrong, it's not just about losing the election or losing the election to Donald Trump. It's about the voters the Democrats have lost. Mm-hmm. But there's not consensus about what to do about it. There is just like in the Republican Party, there is kind of the more populist, you know, John Federman, Senator from Pennsylvania.

Mm-hmm. Or frankly, even a OC. She's as progressive as they comes, but she also has a populist. Sensibility.

Jonah Platt: Right.

Dana Bash: There's a very big strain of populism in the Republican party. Sure. Which is, um, how they got a lot of the formerly democratic voters, particularly rural voters, working class voters, even some middle class voters.

And so trying to find their way, I'm just talking about the Democrats now and figure out why is it that we are. The most popular in urban [00:45:00] areas. Mm-hmm. Why is it that we're the most popular among the highly educated? I think honestly it's, at this point, it's the educational divide even as much or even more than the geographical divide.

Jonah Platt: Do you think that speaks racial to the, to the economic socioeconomic

Dana Bash: divide? Yeah. Yes, I do.

Jonah Platt: Mm-hmm.

Dana Bash: I do. And it's the, the perception of elitism.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: That bluntly people feel left behind. From the beginning, that's what Donald Trump, that was his whole message. It was very simple. You feel left behind. I see you, I hear you.

Come with me. And that was amplified in 2024 when even though the economic indicators and the numbers and what you look like, look at, if you're an economist, were getting much better under Joe Biden. Mm-hmm. Inflation was high and people didn't feel it. And if you can't. Buy a house. If you can't pay a mortgage, if you can't, [00:46:00] um, afford the groceries that you use to afford, you're gonna be pissed.

Yeah. And you're wanna gonna wanna throw the bombs out. And you know what's really interesting, Jonah, is that post covid, the economy was so bad globally,

Jonah Platt: right?

Dana Bash: That in democracies across the world, whether they were. Um, left-leaning leaders or more right-leaning or center right-leaning leaders, more of those leaders were thrown out by their people than I think at almost any point in recorded history.

Jonah Platt: Yeah,

Dana Bash: and it wasn't necessarily because it was a right or left issue, it was an anger issue at the government isn't doing what I needed to be doing for

Jonah Platt: me. Okay. So that's your survey of the Democrats. Okay. What about the Republicans? What, what are you seeing in the first couple months of Trump 2.0 that you are impressed by?

And what are you seeing that you are worried by?

Dana Bash: The big difference within the Republican party is that [00:47:00] the first time around there was, there were a lot of people in Congress who were skeptical of him, who didn't wanna go along with him, who bucked him, and some of them lost their primaries. Mm-hmm. And they got penalized by Republican voters.

In fact most of them did, but they still existed and they made it harder for Trump to do the things he wanted to do. Now at this point, either those people are long gone because they were forced to retire, or they got primaried and they lost from a fellow Republican who is more Trumpy.

Jonah Platt: Mm-hmm.

Dana Bash: Or they're just sucking it up and closing their mouth.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: Or in some cases, they're now part of his administration.

Jonah Platt: Right.

Dana Bash: And that is. Really the big difference, the quote unquote resistance was in effect among Republicans back then, and it's not now. And what this means is that the Republican party is now a. Trump party.

Jonah Platt: Yeah. I'm going to [00:48:00] jump into our lightning round.

Okay. If you'd like to finish the show on a couple of easier questions than the ones I've been tossing at you so far. Yeah. Which past president do you wish you'd had the opportunity to interview and why?

Dana Bash: I wish I would have been able to interview FDR and I would ask him, you were such a great president.

You did so many amazing things. Why didn't you do more for the Jews?

Jonah Platt: Mm.

Dana Bash: That's a personal one for me. Yeah. Why did, I mean, he defeated Hitler, so he did, he did. Well, that was important, but I'm talking about during the war. Right. Why didn't they, they knew, right. Why didn't they bomb the train tracks? Right.

Why didn't they,

Jonah Platt: why were they so focused on, on the military victories and not helping at the same time. Yeah.

Dana Bash: And letting more people in to America.

Jonah Platt: Right, right. If you could interview one person from Jewish history, who would it be and why?

Dana Bash: Esther,

Jonah Platt: oh, let's quick on that one.

Dana Bash: I mean. Can you think of a batter badass woman in the history of the Jewish people than Esther?

Jonah Platt: So my wife loves Vashti [00:49:00] from the porn story. Oh, Vashti's good. I like Vashti. 'cause Vashti was like, I'm not going to be her, you know, little Yeah. Piece or whatever. I'm outta here.

Dana Bash: Yeah.

Jonah Platt: And she likes that.

Dana Bash: I like that too. Yeah.

Jonah Platt: Favorite Jewish holiday?

Dana Bash: I think Seder. Yeah. I think Passover mostly because going back to the family, it's when we all get together.

Mm-hmm. It's, it's such a special time. And you do read a history book.

Jonah Platt: Yeah. Okay. Last question. Do you have any final parting words of wisdom or call to action for our listeners and viewers out there? I

Dana Bash: would say if you are Jewish, what did you say? Let your freak flag fly. What do you what? Is that what you say?

Yeah, that's a thing. Yeah. Like let it fly. Like be comfortable. It's okay. If you're not Jewish, and for some reason you are listening to a podcast called Being Jewish, we got a lot of

Jonah Platt: non-Jewish listeners in this community. Be an

Dana Bash: ally.

Jonah Platt: Yeah.

Dana Bash: Call your Jewish friends. [00:50:00] Send them a text and just say, Hey, you know, just checking in.

That goes. Did you have this experience that goes so far?

Jonah Platt: Oh, it's like the, it's like the greatest hug in the world. I

Dana Bash: never, I actually never expected to feel. That way. Yeah. To be in this and, and you know, I know you had Sheryl Sandberg on I, this, I'm not a crier. And to this day, every time I hear her talk about the walk that she took with her friend who's not Jewish, and she said, will you hide me?

Yeah. And their friend was taken aback and then it said, of course. And they cried. You know, that kind of of connection with somebody who isn't Jewish, who has made who. Can never live it, but who's made to understand the depth of the pain that a lot of Jewish people are in. Forget about Israel. Yeah, forget about the war, but to be an American Jew right now, I never thought I [00:51:00] would feel as comforted as I have by just those random texts that I've gotten from non-Jewish friends.

Jonah Platt: I totally relate. Yeah, completely. Thank you so much.

Dana Bash: Thank you for having me. Oh my gosh, a pleasure. Thank you for reaching

Jonah Platt: out. It's awesome to get the chance to interview the interviewer.

Dana Bash: I know. Thank you. You're

Jonah Platt: welcome. Thanks once again to Dana Bash for letting me be the interviewer today. That was pretty darn cool.

Thanks to my amazing team here at being Jewish with Jonah Plat for hustling to get this episode together. I appreciate you and thanks to all of you for continuing to support and grow the show. Please subscribe to the pod on Apple or Spotify or wherever you get your pods. And if you've only ever listened, try watching us on youtube.com/at Being Jewish podcast.

Totally different experience. Alright, that's it. I'll see y'all back here for the next show. Stopping episode of being Jewish with me, Joan of Platt.